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[Split]When are you white?

CFLarsen said:
When is your skin "dark"?
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Well, here we go again...

Wait, don't tell me: you're going to claim that, because the concepts of "white" skin and "dark" skin are not absolutely defined and it is hard to define a clear bondary between them, then the concepts of being "white" or "black" are useless and you can never tell if someone is either.

I have this psychic ability to determine what you will say because (a) this is what you always do, and (b) in particular, we had a similar discussion with you on this forum concerning those two vague, useless concepts, "night" and "day", as well.

Tell me, Larsen, can you define EXACTLY what "rich" and "poor" is? Where is the cut-off point between them? If there isn't such a point, surely the concepts are meaningless and only point to imaginary differences, proving people have no idea what they're talking about--at least, according to your "logic".

Clearly, in that case, you shouldn't mind being poor instead of rich--they're just imaginary meaningless concepts anyway, and you never understood the difference between them.

So, how about sending me all your money?
 
Skeptic said:
Well, here we go again...

Wait, don't tell me: you're going to claim that, because the concepts of "white" skin and "dark" skin are not absolutely defined and it is hard to define a clear bondary between them, then the concepts of being "white" or "black" are useless and you can never tell if someone is either.

I have this psychic ability to determine what you will say because (a) this is what you always do, and (b) in particular, we had a similar discussion with you on this forum concerning those two vague, useless concepts, "night" and "day", as well.
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Atleast we agree on one thing.
 
wolfgirl said:
Reminds me of the horrible kids back in grade school who would run crying to the teachers and tattle on you if you did anything wrong. They never had any friends, either...
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[derail]
You seem to have been in a different grade school that I was in. In our school the adjective "horrible" would better describe those kids who did things like throwing you or your possessions into pools of mud water and then threatening to beat you up if you told anyone. Strange thing is that they usually did have friends, if only because no one wanted to be their enemy.[/derail]
 
Skeptic said:
Well, here we go again...
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Without getting into Larsen's usual silliness, how do scholarship bodies for ethnic minorities determine if someone is or is not a member of that minority? Ok so it will be very obvious in some cases, but do they have an appeals procedure for people who don't look black enough?
 
Skeptic said:
Well, here we go again...

Wait, don't tell me: you're going to claim that, because the concepts of "white" skin and "dark" skin are not absolutely defined and it is hard to define a clear bondary between them, then the concepts of being "white" or "black" are useless and you can never tell if someone is either.

I have this psychic ability to determine what you will say because (a) this is what you always do, and (b) in particular, we had a similar discussion with you on this forum concerning those two vague, useless concepts, "night" and "day", as well.

Tell me, Larsen, can you define EXACTLY what "rich" and "poor" is? Where is the cut-off point between them? If there isn't such a point, surely the concepts are meaningless and only point to imaginary differences, proving people have no idea what they're talking about--at least, according to your "logic".

Clearly, in that case, you shouldn't mind being poor instead of rich--they're just imaginary meaningless concepts anyway, and you never understood the difference between them.

So, how about sending me all your money?
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Wow. Such emotion. Take a chill pill and stop jumping the gun.

Sorry to disappoint you, but you don't have this psychic ability. No, I am not saying that we can never tell whether people are white or black. I'm pretty white (OK, pig/dough coloured), and Kofi Annan is pretty black (but he isn't pitch black either).

I am, however, talking about the boundaries. We can actually define exactly who is rich and who is poor. We do it in our societies, based on economic ability. We draw a line somewhere, and that's that. While different from country to country, it still is a demarcation line.

Not so with skin colour. We have never been able to clearly define just who is "white" and who is "black". It is easy when it concerns me and Kofi Annan. It becomes far more fuzzy when we are talking about Tiger Woods.

Does it make sense to say that I am white and Kofi Annan is black? Sure. Does it matter, when we clearly are so far apart? Not really. It only becomes interesting when we approach the boundaries of those non-defined definitions. I think it is reasonable to ask why these boundaries should be created, when we can't define them anyway. Especially since these boundaries have meant, and still mean, so much in our cultures.

Can you answer the question? When is your skin "dark"?

And why is it so important to you to be able to define people by their skin colour?
 
brodski said:
Without getting into Larsen's usual silliness, how do scholarship bodies for ethnic minorities determine if someone is or is not a member of that minority? Ok so it will be very obvious in some cases, but do they have an appeals procedure for people who don't look black enough?
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I don't know. Perhaps they get their guidelines from old segregation laws in the southern US states, or from the intricate maze that was the South African race-definition system.
 
brodski said:
Without getting into Larsen's usual silliness, how do scholarship bodies for ethnic minorities determine if someone is or is not a member of that minority? Ok so it will be very obvious in some cases, but do they have an appeals procedure for people who don't look black enough?
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That's hardly a silly matter, is it?
 
CFLarsen said:
No, I am not saying that we can never tell whether people are white or black.
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Yes you are:

CFLarsen said:
I could never figure out what "white" means. When are you not "white"?
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Sorry, Larsen, I'm not going to play your usual silly game of acting all shocked and surprised that concepts like "night" and "day", or "black" and "white", have fuzzy boundaries.

I'm just pointing out that that's what you're doing here.

Again.
 
Skeptic said:
Yes you are:



Sorry, Larsen, I'm not going to play your usual silly game of acting all shocked and surprised that concepts like "night" and "day", or "black" and "white", have fuzzy boundaries.

I'm just pointing out that that's what you're doing here.

Again.
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And again, calm down, and try to read what I say.

I am not saying that we can never know who is white or not. I am saying that, when we approach the boundaries, it gets tricky.

When is your skin "dark"?

And why is it so important to you to be able to define people by their skin colour?
 
CFLarsen said:
That's hardly a silly matter, is it?
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Not the way I phrased it, no. However you failed to accept that for the vast majority, it is usually pretty easy to tell which broad, widely accepted, ethnic categories people fit into. Just because a group exists as a "fuzzy set", doesn't men that that set does not exist. Otherwise I could make an argument that we have no planet on which to live.
 
brodski said:
Not the way I phrased it, no. However you failed to accept that for the vast majority, it is usually pretty easy to tell which broad, widely accepted, ethnic categories people fit into. Just because a group exists as a "fuzzy set", doesn't men that that set does not exist. Otherwise I could make an argument that we have no planet on which to live.
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Allow me to quote myself:

CFLarsen said:
Does it make sense to say that I am white and Kofi Annan is black? Sure. Does it matter, when we clearly are so far apart? Not really. It only becomes interesting when we approach the boundaries of those non-defined definitions. I think it is reasonable to ask why these boundaries should be created, when we can't define them anyway. Especially since these boundaries have meant, and still mean, so much in our cultures.
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It isn't the majority that is the problem. It's when we approach the boundaries that it becomes interesting.

Or, as it is, a problem.
 
CFLarsen said:
We can actually define exactly who is rich and who is poor. We do it in our societies, based on economic ability. We draw a line somewhere, and that's that. While different from country to country, it still is a demarcation line.
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So where is the line drawn in, let's say, NYC? How much money do you have to earn to be considered rich and not poor? Since "we can actually define who is rich and who is poor" will everyone agree with the number you can come up with? If I earn 75K/year am I rich? Am I rich to someone who earns 6 bucks an hour? How about to someone who earns 12 million a year? Or am I between rich and poor?

Sorry, there is no clear demarcation line...at least not a universally accepted one. Same with skin color.
 
Dustin said:
Addressing what I haven't already addressed...







Ok then....
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That's all you have to say? I tried to answer you seriously with a comprehensive post that I put some time and effort into, and I didn't insult you, and you brush off my answer with "Ok then..."

That's awfully gracious of you. Good luck with the interview portion of your college application process.

I have a suggestion, Dustin. Go back to your dermatologist and have her remove that big chip from your shoulder.

AS
 
HarryKeogh said:
So where is the line drawn in, let's say, NYC? How much money do you have to earn to be considered rich and not poor? Since "we can actually define who is rich and who is poor" will everyone agree with the number you can come up with? If I earn 75K/year am I rich? Am I rich to someone who earns 6 bucks an hour? How about to someone who earns 12 million a year? Or am I between rich and poor?

Sorry, there is no clear demarcation line...at least not a universally accepted one. Same with skin color.
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Like I said, it differs from country to country. If you don't have enough money to live, then you are poor. Obviously, this is different in Denmark than it is in the US, and it is different in Denmark than it is in Burkina Faso. $1,000 will buy you a different amount of things in each country.

Poverty lines are used e.g. to determine if people should receive government aid. It is also an indicator of how rich a country is: The fewer people below the poverty line, the richer the country is.

Take a look at this interesting list: List of countries by percentage of population living in poverty

Not surprisingly, 3rd World countries top the list. A bit surprisingly (perhaps?), we find the US with 12% of its population living below the national poverty line.

Your skin colour, however, doesn't change whether you live in the US, Denmark or Burkina Faso. Or how much money you have.
 
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