Spirit communication

Irish Murdoch

Critical Thinker
I
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Here's a question for anyone who believes that members of the human race have had contact with spirits, be they just good old fashioned dead people, angels, gods, or what have you. Have any such supposed communications ever resulted in verifiable information being passed on? Did any spirit being ever give any information later shown to be correct about the nature of the world (I'm assuming that, if there were angels, they would have known all along that the earth is round)? (Only unambiguous messages need be cited; I don't regard celestial guessing games as valid.)

Now, I know what I think the answer to the question is. But you can try and convince me otherwise. But there's a further question: if my hunch is right, and no genuine knowledge has ever been passed on by supposed encounters with spirits, why on earth do people continue to believe in them?
 
Irish Murdoch said:
Here's a question for anyone who believes that members of the human race have had contact with spirits, be they just good old fashioned dead people, angels, gods, or what have you. Have any such supposed communications ever resulted in verifiable information being passed on? Did any spirit being ever give any information later shown to be correct about the nature of the world (I'm assuming that, if there were angels, they would have known all along that the earth is round)? (Only unambiguous messages need be cited; I don't regard celestial guessing games as valid.)

Now, I know what I think the answer to the question is. But you can try and convince me otherwise. But there's a further question: if my hunch is right, and no genuine knowledge has ever been passed on by supposed encounters with spirits, why on earth do people continue to believe in them?
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Beats me.
 
There's plenty of stories of people having a "vision" about a loved one foretelling of their death.

While this is easily dismissed as post-experience bias, where a dream about Aunt Deathbed, whom they know to be about to die, occurs the night that Aunt Deathbed dies, is interpreted as a vision of Aunt Deathbed visiting them to tell them goodbye.

This would be "proof" of knowledge passed on by an encounter with spirits, as far as the believing observer is concerned.

Now, if Aunt Deathbed gives them the winning lottery numbers consistently for a year? That's something worth investigating.
 
No ambiguous anecdotes allowed? I had a pretty cool story about a time years ago when I actually thought I had met an angel. It's the only story I have like it. But no world shattering info was passed on.

I will say, though, that I've known many charismatic Xtian individuals who claim to have seen or spoken with spirits, Jesus, angels, etc and so forth. In almost every case that I can recall, whatever information was passed on was individual and relevant almost completely to that person alone. Whether it was, "the Lord told me I would be married in six months," or "Gabriel helped me find my car keys that day," etc. Often times, the individual "messages" could get fairly detailed and specific.

But when there was a corporate message or something for a group, it was almost always ambiguous and veiled in symbolism and multiple interpretations could easily apply, and I don't ever remember anyone ever claiming a manifesting spirit gave them a corporate message. It was always visions/etc.
 
The only such experience that stuck in my mind is with a friend dying of cancer.
I knew he was in bad shape, but had no information on the prognosis.
One morning while working in my toy airplane shop, I heard him call my name from the living room.
I went out there, no one there.
Later that day his wife called to tell me he had died at home, in her arms in the afternoon.
Why I had that experience, I have no idea.
But on the odd occasion, I will sometimes flash on some celebrity who has not been mentioned for sometime, and encounter a mention of that celebrity within a few hours.
Think of Tawny Kitaen, say, pick up the morning newspaper, and there's a short item on her.
Of course I (to the best of my recollection) never flash on the millions of Joe Blows in the world and their situations, just folks I've heard of.
 
trentwray said:
... I will say, though, that I've known many charismatic Xtian individuals who claim to have seen or spoken with spirits, Jesus, angels, etc and so forth. In almost every case that I can recall, whatever information was passed on was individual and relevant almost completely to that person alone. Whether it was, "the Lord told me I would be married in six months," or "Gabriel helped me find my car keys that day," etc. Often times, the individual "messages" could get fairly detailed and specific.

But when there was a corporate message or something for a group, it was almost always ambiguous and veiled in symbolism and multiple interpretations could easily apply, and I don't ever remember anyone ever claiming a manifesting spirit gave them a corporate message. It was always visions/etc.
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Either signficant only to the individual or so vague as to apply to just about anybody.

My spirit guide confirms that this is always the case.

;)
 
I Ratant said:
The only such experience that stuck in my mind is with a friend dying of cancer.
I knew he was in bad shape, but had no information on the prognosis.
One morning while working in my toy airplane shop, I heard him call my name from the living room.
I went out there, no one there.
Later that day his wife called to tell me he had died at home, in her arms in the afternoon.
Why I had that experience, I have no idea.
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Isn't there a specific term for this type of event? I don't think it's the same as "walk-ins." After a brief google I came up with nothing.

But on the odd occasion, I will sometimes flash on some celebrity who has not been mentioned for sometime, and encounter a mention of that celebrity within a few hours.
Think of Tawny Kitaen, say, pick up the morning newspaper, and there's a short item on her.
Of course I (to the best of my recollection) never flash on the millions of Joe Blows in the world and their situations, just folks I've heard of.
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What do you attribute this to?

Fnord said:
Either signficant only to the individual or so vague as to apply to just about anybody.

My spirit guide confirms that this is always the case.

;)
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The force is strong with you I see :) Trust your guide I do :)
 
trentwray said:
Isn't there a specific term for this type of event? I don't think it's the same as "walk-ins." After a brief google I came up with nothing.
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The most I'll go out on a limb for is that Clark had some manner of respect for me as a good friend, and his impending death triggered the connection.
But I don't believe that occurs, leaving it unexplainable.
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What do you attribute this to?
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(this being flashing on celebrities)
I have no idea why this occurs. It's not unusual at all. But it's like having a premonition of Aunt Maude's condition worsening. One never has such a premonition of your Aunt Maude's anything, only those you know about.
I know about celebrities, but not the average Joe Blow who gets his 3 inches of column fame in the paper, and is never heard of again.
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The force is strong with you I see :) Trust your guide I do :)
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It is not the force you seek. Look elsewhere. :)
Were such "premonitions" of any value, they could be followed up on, but there's so many, and only a very few actually have any connection, there's nothing to follow up with.
I flash on Dustin Hoffman. Should I be concerned about something happening to him today?
I'll pass on that and all of them until the day after, when maybe something may connect.
 
My grandmother always claimed that whenever anyone in her family died, they would appear at the foot of her bed in the middle of the night and the next morning she would get the phone call saying that they had died.

My dad was a disbeliever in this sort of thing and I think a little impatient with this sort of talk, though my mom believed it. I always did, too.

She never made any other claims to paranormal abilities.
 
ExMinister said:
My grandmother always claimed that whenever anyone in her family died, they would appear at the foot of her bed in the middle of the night and the next morning she would get the phone call saying that they had died.

My dad was a disbeliever in this sort of thing and I think a little impatient with this sort of talk, though my mom believed it. I always did, too.

She never made any other claims to paranormal abilities.
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See, I thought there was a specific term for when you have a premonition of a person before they die. Like that specific event had it's own term/label attached (not Final Destination). :)
 
ExMinister said:
My grandmother always claimed that whenever anyone in her family died, they would appear at the foot of her bed in the middle of the night and the next morning she would get the phone call saying that they had died.

My dad was a disbeliever in this sort of thing and I think a little impatient with this sort of talk, though my mom believed it. I always did, too.

She never made any other claims to paranormal abilities.
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My grandmother always claimed that, when you are close to death, a loved one who has previously passed on will appear at your bedside, to 'escort' you to the beyond.

When my mother was dying, she looked past me at her bedside, and saw her father, who had died the year before. When my father was dying, he saw his late mother. When my grandmother was dying, she saw her late husband.

I suppose a lot of people might look upon that kind of experience as spirits communicating that death is at hand-although it doesn't seem at all useful, since, presumably, the person already knows they are dying.

Personally, I just assume they are hallucinations, summoned up by minds becoming disconnected from reality through the process of dying.
 
trentwray said:
See, I thought there was a specific term for when you have a premonition of a person before they die. Like that specific event had it's own term/label attached (not Final Destination). :)
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I don't know of any specific name for it. In her case, she seemed to think they appeared in spirit form to say goodbye.
 
I Ratant said:
But on the odd occasion, I will sometimes flash on some celebrity who has not been mentioned for sometime, and encounter a mention of that celebrity within a few hours.
Think of Tawny Kitaen, say, pick up the morning newspaper, and there's a short item on her.
Of course I (to the best of my recollection) never flash on the millions of Joe Blows in the world and their situations, just folks I've heard of.
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I wonder, do things really happen in that order? Not saying that you're making this up, mind you! It's just that verbatim storage of past events isn't exactly a strong suit of the human brain, so it may very well be that the event of e.g. reading about Tawny Kitaen at time X ends up "temporally misplaced" as remembering "thinking about TK at time X-1"...? (kind of Deja-vu)
I don't know if that has ever been tested, e.g. by someone making an actual note if he/she thinks about person A, then comparing if this checks out. Sure sounds like something Milgram wouldn't have minded doing an experiment on ;) (yes, I'm reading one of Wiseman's books at the moment ... sorry!)
 
theMark said:
I wonder, do things really happen in that order? Not saying that you're making this up, mind you! It's just that verbatim storage of past events isn't exactly a strong suit of the human brain, so it may very well be that the event of e.g. reading about Tawny Kitaen at time X ends up "temporally misplaced" as remembering "thinking about TK at time X-1"...? (kind of Deja-vu)
I don't know if that has ever been tested, e.g. by someone making an actual note if he/she thinks about person A, then comparing if this checks out. Sure sounds like something Milgram wouldn't have minded doing an experiment on ;) (yes, I'm reading one of Wiseman's books at the moment ... sorry!)
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It would take a bit of dedication, but if anyone thought they could get a statistically significant hit rate, it wouldn't be too hard to keep a blog of "notable people I just spontaneously thought about". Boring, but do-able.
 
theMark said:
I wonder, do things really happen in that order? Not saying that you're making this up, mind you! It's just that verbatim storage of past events isn't exactly a strong suit of the human brain, so it may very well be that the event of e.g. reading about Tawny Kitaen at time X ends up "temporally misplaced" as remembering "thinking about TK at time X-1"...? (kind of Deja-vu)
I don't know if that has ever been tested, e.g. by someone making an actual note if he/she thinks about person A, then comparing if this checks out. Sure sounds like something Milgram wouldn't have minded doing an experiment on ;) (yes, I'm reading one of Wiseman's books at the moment ... sorry!)
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There wasn't a temporal displacement with Ms. Kitaen, which made it prominent to my awareness.
I flashed on her, and later that day on the tv there was an item about her beating up her professional football player husband.
These happen in that sequence.. the name passes thru my head bone, and there's a later mention of that person in the media.
But it's not 100 percent, very random.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
It would take a bit of dedication, but if anyone thought they could get a statistically significant hit rate, it wouldn't be too hard to keep a blog of "notable people I just spontaneously thought about". Boring, but do-able.
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In my experience, it hasn't worked that way.
It's a passing thought that vanishes almost instantly, until the later reference appears.
Considering all the persons there are to think about during the day, keeping track of the hits and misses would be a chore.
And, none of these flashes have anything to do with my life at all.
Other than the instance with my dying friend, I have connection whatsoever with the celebrities that I flash on.
 
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