"Spent," a Social Issues game

[slingblade]

A recent thread expressed surprise that Americans find it difficult to buy nutritious food, like fruits and vegetables, on a low income. The incredulity seemed telling, in that some people don't appear to understand what it's like to live on a low income.

Here's a game that allows you to make the choices people living on $9 an hour have to make. See how long you last, before you run out of money.

I lasted eight days.

http://www.playspent.org/


You may like to know beforehand that the "game" asks for a charity donation at the end, which you are not required to make.

 

[Ixion]

I made it through the month with $187 in savings, collection agencies after me, the possibility of my car being repossessed, in bad health for me and possibly my child, and had to skip several important life events for fear of running out of money. Furthermore, I am surviving in the game primarily on beans, drink mix (kool-aid like stuff, I imagine), ramen noodles, and peanut butter sandwiches. Also, my $750 rent is due the next day.

 

[slingblade]

I played a second time, Ix, making all the horrible choices, knowing if it were my real life, I'd make them. I ended up like you, in big trouble, and with too little money to pay next month's rent.

 

[bluesjnr]

I lasted 21 days. I would have lasted longer if they didn't keep throwing in kids, dogs, unethical bosses, inability to look for a second job after going on piece work to name but a few.

I understand what they are trying to do but I feel this is frivolous.


ETA - Completed it again and lasted the month but not in good shape! Was left with $486 and rent due the next day and had turned into a complete skinflint. I did notice that it doesn't matter if you choose piecework or remain on hourly rate as the game will punish you either way, so therefore it's no choice at all.

 

[Newtons Bit]

I lasted 21 days. I would have lasted longer if they didn't keep throwing in kids, dogs, unethical bosses, inability to look for a second job after going on piece work to name but a few.

I understand what they are trying to do but I feel this is frivolous.

I agree with this. Some of the things I noticed:

Health insurance premiums being about double what I've noticed them at for jobs I've worked at.

Rent being double or even triple what's available here in Albuquerque.

The system randomly dumping your hours to 20 a week and then you not getting another job. Seriously? You're struggling and you're just going to keep with the 20 hours a week job and not TRY and find something else?

Landlord (illegally) not fixing problems.

Starting off with $219/month credit card bills (Really?)

$250 dollar speeding ticket.

Seriously, this thing just throws random things at you that are mostly crap.

 

[slingblade]

Blues, I'm going to rant a little bit, because I'm in a ranty mood. But it's not at you. It's at this situation. Your remarks inspired it, but I don't want you to feel I'm suddenly ragging on you, please.



Kids, dogs, and unethical bosses definitely exist. Single parents were part of the scenario, so issues with them had to be included in the game.

Very often, the worst bosses are found at the lowest paying jobs, because poor people literally cannot afford to complain about much and expect to remain employed. So the ones who can't make it themselves as employers, at places where company relations matter, tend to bottom feed on the poor. Besides, they work for peanuts, and you can make 'em jump through hoops to get it.

Sure, you can always just change jobs! But like I said, these bad employers are pretty prevalent, and you find yourself moving on a lot, and then it starts getting harder to get work, because you never stay anywhere; you have no consistent record of employment, no durability. Damn. Maybe you can't just move on. Maybe you have to put up with it.

So you found a decent job, making good money, and the kids want a dog. Sure, why not? You're able to afford the food, and the vet, and all that. Five years later, you lose the good job and have to take one at 3/4 or 1/2 pay. Suddenly, dog food seems to be made of gold, and the vet is but a memory. Now people give you grief: "why do you have a dog if you can't afford to care for him?" Well I could when I got him! Did you expect me to see into the future? Is anyone able to do that when they get a pet? So maybe we should ban pets, because we can't know if we can always care for them, and that's just cruel. Oh, I know; I'll break my kids' hearts and adopt him out, and it won't hurt them too much. They're already doing without so much, they'll forget about this soon. Never mind that the dog himself seems a bit attached to us, and it seems equally cruel to hand him off to strangers...damn it.


I've lived this life for most of my life. The game is actually quite close to what I've had to do for decades. I have no credit, no health insurance, have a 21 year old car with minimum insurance on it that someone else is paying for me at a group rate, buy all my clothes at thrift shops...that game is my life, whether you think it's frivolous or not.

Sorry, Blues. I often respect your opinion, but in this case, I think it's possible you're operating out of misconceptions.

 

[slingblade]

I agree with this. Some of the things I noticed:

Health insurance premiums being about double what I've noticed them at for jobs I've worked at.

I know my responses are anecdotal, but so is what I'm responding to. You haven't seen it. Okay, I believe you. Now, let me tell you what I've seen, by the same token.

My husband worked at Walker, Inc. They make parts for cars, small stuff of the catalytic converter nature, though I'm not sure that's the exact product they produce. They got an AFLAC type program, and basic prescriptions, and offered it. The premium for just him was $250 a month. Adding me raised it to $275.
ETA: we didn't get it.

Rent being double or even triple what's available here in Albuquerque.

We moved in May from a two-bedroom duplex in Colorado. $700/month, half the gas, unmetered between the two units. If we turned down the heat to save money, we were paying even more of our neighbor's share. We were paying for them to have heat while we did without.

ETA: We had moved to that from a little tiny one-bedroom across the street, $650/month. Infested with ants in the summer, which they just laughed about ("Everybody's got 'em. I've got 'em. So?") Never came by to inspect once, but a neighbor reported (falsely) that we have big, black dog, and they just taped a 3-day eviction notice (illegally) to our front door. We called, our son who knew the landlord called, we invited them out to see there was no dog. They just gave in as suddenly, and we were allowed to stay.

The system randomly dumping your hours to 20 a week and then you not getting another job. Seriously? You're struggling and you're just going to keep with the 20 hours a week job and not TRY and find something else?

Maybe it's not always that you don't try. I didn't get that scenario, so I don't know how they worded it. Maybe it's that you have to be home with your kids at night. You are, in this game, a single parent. Maybe it's that of the available jobs, the only ones you can do have hours that overlap the other job's. It's iffy if your boss will allow you to take off work an hour or half hour early to get to your other job. He might. But then, he won't pay you for them. You take a pay cut to make extra money.

Landlord (illegally) not fixing problems.

They can do it sometimes. Ask me how I know this.

Starting off with $219/month credit card bills (Really?)

Again, you can't see into the future. Maybe you spend too much, or maybe you had a big bill come up, a car repair, and you had to charge it, or maybe you had a job that supported that size payment. Remember, the game starts you out employed. But now you're out of work, and the bill still comes due. Is the answer that you shouldn't have a credit card, if you can't know absolutely you'll never be out of work?

$250 dollar speeding ticket.

Can't comment. Haven't driven in 20 years, and my husband doesn't drive so as to get tickets.

Seriously, this thing just throws random things at you that are mostly crap.

Um, not so much.

 

[bluesjnr]

Blues, I'm going to rant a little bit, because I'm in a ranty mood. But it's not at you. It's at this situation. Your remarks inspired it, but I don't want you to feel I'm suddenly ragging on you, please.



Kids, dogs, and unethical bosses definitely exist. Single parents were part of the scenario, so issues with them had to be included in the game.

Very often, the worst bosses are found at the lowest paying jobs, because poor people literally cannot afford to complain about much and expect to remain employed. So the ones who can't make it themselves as employers, at places where company relations matter, tend to bottom feed on the poor. Besides, they work for peanuts, and you can make 'em jump through hoops to get it.

Sure, you can always just change jobs! But like I said, these bad employers are pretty prevalent, and you find yourself moving on a lot, and then it starts getting harder to get work, because you never stay anywhere; you have no consistent record of employment, no durability. Damn. Maybe you can't just move on. Maybe you have to put up with it.

So you found a decent job, making good money, and the kids want a dog. Sure, why not? You're able to afford the food, and the vet, and all that. Five years later, you lose the good job and have to take one at 3/4 or 1/2 pay. Suddenly, dog food seems to be made of gold, and the vet is but a memory. Now people give you grief: "why do you have a dog if you can't afford to care for him?" Well I could when I got him! Did you expect me to see into the future? Is anyone able to do that when they get a pet? So maybe we should ban pets, because we can't know if we can always care for them, and that's just cruel. Oh, I know; I'll break my kids' hearts and adopt him out, and it won't hurt them too much. They're already doing without so much, they'll forget about this soon. Never mind that the dog himself seems a bit attached to us, and it seems equally cruel to hand him off to strangers...damn it.


I've lived this life for most of my life. The game is actually quite close to what I've had to do for decades. I have no credit, no health insurance, have a 21 year old car with minimum insurance on it that someone else is paying for me at a group rate, buy all my clothes at thrift shops...that game is my life, whether you think it's frivolous or not.

Sorry, Blues. I often respect your opinion, but in this case, I think it's possible you're operating out of misconceptions.

Have at me slingblade, I completely understand your ire.

I don't think I made my point as eloquently as I wished to. Perhaps this may be why you consider me to be operating out of misconceptions. I'm aware that all of the issues highlighted whilst playing the game are very real for, sadly, more than a small number of people. I felt that the programmers missed an opportunity by attempting to ensure that you wouldn't last the month by way of throwing everything at you and not allow you to assess the possible outcomes of your decisions. Very few decisions had a positive outcome. The fact that I could go back and try again highlights just how frivolous the game is. I'm talking about the game please note, not the lifestyle it is attempting to demonstrate to us.

Of course the alternative would have been to have the game on a "real-time" basis but that would have meant one heck of a commitment from people!

I'm sorry (respectfully) you are in the situation you are in and hope that things improve for you.

 

[bluesjnr]

Can't comment. Haven't driven in 20 years, and my husband doesn't drive so as to get tickets.

Can you explain what this means? By "tickets" do you mean that he takes (buys a ticket for) public transport (if he does then what is the point of owning a 21 year old car and paying insurance on something neither of you can/will operate) or is he driving illegally and thus occasionally getting a "ticket" (fine) from the authorities.

I'm just being nosy here and looking for clarification, nothing else!

 

[Architect]

I find the questions about paying for healthcare particularly depressing.

 

[slingblade]

I can see that point, Blues. It did throw a lot at you at once. And no, not all months are like that. Sometimes we could afford to have dinner at Golden Corral. Hey, if you can only eat out once every three months, make it all you can eat, right?

But some months are like that. Hopefully, not very many, not very often.

I do appreciate your point though. It was a bit heavy, perhaps.

 

[slingblade]

Can you explain what this means? By "tickets" do you mean that he takes (buys a ticket for) public transport (if he does then what is the point of owning a 21 year old car and paying insurance on something neither of you can/will operate) or is he driving illegally and thus occasionally getting a "ticket" (fine) from the authorities.

I'm just being nosy here and looking for clarification, nothing else!

No, no! I mean he is a very good driver, and doesn't break the laws when he drives. He's careful. Only one ticket in all the time I've known him, and it was speeding, but he was only 5 over. Small town. I think the fine was a whole $25.

 

[Antiquehunter]

I lasted the month with $401 at the end of the month (but insufficient to pay my $800 rent). I had to be a complete jerk throughout - didn't take my dog to the vet, didn't buy my mom meds, put plastic on windows.

However I will suggest that perhaps the game is set up such that you cannot 'win'.

And while life may at times appear that way, I don't believe that life is unwinnable.

 

[GodMark2]

Starting off with $219/month credit card bills (Really?)

Again, you can't see into the future. Maybe you spend too much, or maybe you had a big bill come up, a car repair, and you had to charge it, or maybe you had a job that supported that size payment. Remember, the game starts you out employed. But now you're out of work, and the bill still comes due. Is the answer that you shouldn't have a credit card, if you can't know absolutely you'll never be out of work?

Apparently, you start out with a credit card bill that you don't find out about until you're more than halfway through the month, AND there's a car loan that you know nothing about until a creditor with a REALLY PHONY NAME calls and demands money. If you don't pay up (to Mr. Gimmiemoney McPhonyname), your car gets repossessed, and you lose your job.

Who doesn't know how much (or even that) they owe on their car? Who doesn't know that they have $1700 in credit card debt? How can you possibly budget your spending without knowing those things?

I can understand not being able to see the future, but this 'game' starts you not being able to see your own past, either.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Actually I found rent quite reasonable and bad landlords/employers to be realistic.

What I would do is go back in time, not get pregnant, and not charge crap on my credit card. But this was about trying to survive in the common situation.

I ended with $711 as a warehouse worker who was fired for union activity. Rent was $600 the next day.

What I didn't like was that even picking the city, it wouldn't let me ditch the car. And it randomly had a mobile phone bill, but that goes back to changing the past.

Also, I am pretty sure my food stamps would have been expedited .

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I agree with this. Some of the things I noticed:

Health insurance premiums being about double what I've noticed them at for jobs I've worked at.

Rent being double or even triple what's available here in Albuquerque.

The system randomly dumping your hours to 20 a week and then you not getting another job. Seriously? You're struggling and you're just going to keep with the 20 hours a week job and not TRY and find something else?

Landlord (illegally) not fixing problems.

Starting off with $219/month credit card bills (Really?)

$250 dollar speeding ticket.

Seriously, this thing just throws random things at you that are mostly crap.

Yep, the game is a joke. I don't think it's meant to be taken seriously.

I didn't want to waste much time with it, but like you said, the healthcare costs are above what I pay, and I'm an older male, with individual coverage (no group) and fairly low deductibles.

$800/month to live 10 miles from work? Really? Get a roommate - save $400.

I suspect it's rigged to make you fail. I doubt you can get a second or third job^***, I doubt you can increase your wages by being above average, etc. Because if you "win" the game, they can't very well ask for a donation at the end, can they?

^***Of course, some idiot is going to come along and whine about how you can't get a job in the current economy, much less a second one, blah...blah....blah. Whatever.

 

[casebro]

Can somebody work it backwards to see how long ago the single parent would have actually gone bankrupt and onto welfare?

 

[JFrankA]

I've played this a few times. Once I got lucky and didn't have much to go through and ended up with over $1000.

As to the "forcing of bad things" in the game, I think they're basing that on their sources:

http://playspent.org/doc/UMD_Spent_Sources.pdf

 

[Dessi]

A recent thread expressed surprise that Americans find it difficult to buy nutritious food, like fruits and vegetables, on a low income. The incredulity seemed telling, in that some people don't appear to understand what it's like to live on a low income.

Here's a game that allows you to make the choices people living on $9 an hour have to make. See how long you last, before you run out of money.

I lasted eight days.

http://www.playspent.org/

You may like to know beforehand that the "game" asks for a charity donation at the end, which you are not required to make.

I have been in the position where I made $7.50/hr and had to pay rent, literally living paycheck to paycheck. I made the exact same decisions I would have made if I were back in that position, so I lasted through the end of the month with $110.

Things I learned about living on every dime:

- thrift stores are awesome.
- Aside from my 5 work shirts, I own 1 shirt and one pair of jeans which I wore everyday. I wore the one outfit until it literally started to fall apart, I always got another shirt or a skirt for Christmases and birthdays, saved me the cost of buying my own clothes.
- one box of pasta and a jar of Hunt's sauce divide nicely into 3 decent meals. The Walmart brand pasta is $0.79, sauce is $0.93, that's a pretty efficient meal.
- shopping for food is sort of a black art. I always shop for nutritional benefit. Ramen noodles are cheap, but nutritionally worthless. I can get a few good meals out of bread, peanut butter, and jelly. Juice instead of soda satisfies my need for sugary drinks, and it has vitamin C too.
- cigarettes, alcohol, and cannabis have no nutritional value. If you can't have them for free, you can't have them at all.
- one time a guy pitched in $10 for my groceries when I didn't have enough. I don't know why, but I thanked him lots afterward.
- I went into work on time every single day, whether I wanted to or not. Always picked up extra hours from slackers, always worked when I was sick. One sick day is 10% of your paycheck.
- I was unable to afford insurace, so its not like I would do anything productive with my sick days anyway.
- *always* pay bills on time. Credit card, rent, phone, utilities, collection agencies etc. Falling behind on bills is a death trap. I had a special service with my bank which allowed me one overdraft without a fee every 6 months, it was a lifesaver at least once.
- living with friends cuts costs. Make sure you have good taste in friends.
- don't own a pet.
- for that matter, don't have kids if you can avoid it.
- there's nothing wrong applying for public assistance. WIC, food stamps, Medicaid are hugely helpful. Caveat: the government is NOT your friend, don't depend on them for anything.

This last point is probably the hardest. Many people who live paycheck to paycheck depend on things like Medicaid to cover the cost of daycare or doctors visits. If they make $1 over the threshold, they lose *all* of their Medicaid visits, and suddenly the cost of daycare exceeds income. These people are faced with a horrific situation: find a lower paying job to qualify for Medicaid, stop paying rent, stop putting their kid in daycare, find a sitter, lie about their income, or stop putting food on the table. What decision do you think most rational people make in this situation? How do you think they get out of it?

I was very fortunate when I was in that situation, because my programming background got me my first professional job when I was 19. Unfortunately, most my friends did not have that luxury, only the ones with strong financial support from their parents could go to college, the others are still poor.

Money sucks.

 

[Beerina]

I lasted 21 days. I would have lasted longer if they didn't keep throwing in kids, dogs, unethical bosses, inability to look for a second job after going on piece work to name but a few.

Gee, my landlord illegally violated my contract and just raised the rent, and immediately, too, just after I signed.

And...that's enough of that idiocy.