FireGarden
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This was originally linked to by De_Bunk http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/int/long.html in this thread http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62075
This was noted by Wudang in the above thread.
In item 25, SAB paraphrases [2:191] "Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers."
But before and after 191, there is:
[2:190] Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
[2:192] But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
[2:193] And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
To test the accuracy of the other SAB claims, I searched the page for "Jews" and found:
SAB paraphrase [2:61] as: "Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations."
Yusuf Ali's Translation of [2:61] refers to "slaying His Messengers without just cause" rather than simply killing prophets. But the main point is that SAB neglect to give us [2:62] "Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."
So if you unjustly kill prophets you're punished. If you believe in God and judgement (as Muslim, Jew, Christian or Sabean) and do good works, you're rewarded.
Item 10: "Jews are the greediest of all humankind"
How many of you, on reading that, think it refers to money and usury? But if you read the original, it's saying that the Jews are greedy for life, they want to live a 1000 years.
Items 61 and 62 [4:51]: "Jews and Christians believe in idols and false deities, yet they claim to be more rightly guided than Muslims. [4:52]Those (Christians and Jews) are they whom Allah hath cursed."
The original seems to be about those who, having been given scripture, invent lies about god. I don't see where it exempts Muslims.
Item 89 : "For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom."
Which makes it sound like it applies to all Jews. But the original more clearly states "We have prepared a stern chastisement for those of them that disbelieve."
Item 93: "Allah has cursed the Jews and hardened their hearts. Nearly all of them are treacherous." [5:12-13]
Yusuf Ali's translation : "But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind."
It's not talking about general trust-worthiness. The context is changing the word of God. Muslims are told to forgive and overlook that.
Item 101: "Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them."
At last.
A claim where I have to do more than just read the original.
Abdullah Yusuf Ali translates [5:51] (number [5:54] in other places) as "O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."
And, in his notes, he says "That is, look not to them for help and comfort."
Item 102 [5:53] : "Jews and Christians are losers"
But Yusuf Ali's translation of [5:53] says "And those who believe will say: 'Are these the men who swore their strongest oaths by Allah, that they were with you?' All that they do will be in vain, and they will fall into (nothing but) ruin." Yusuf ali's notes say this refers to Muslim hypocrites, ie: those that pretended to be Muslims. That's seems the most natural interpretation.
Item 103 [5:57] "Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians."
Original : "O ye who believe! take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport -- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have faith (indeed)."
Weaker than [5:51], it says don't be friends with those that make fun of your beliefs.
Item 104 [5:59]: "Jews and Christians are evil-livers."
Original [5:59] Say: "O people of the Book! Do ye disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah, and the revelation that hath come to us and that which came before (us), and (perhaps) that most of you are rebellious and disobedient?"
Item 106 [5:64] : "Allah has cast enmity and hatred among the Jews"
Yusuf Ali's notes say that it is enmity and hatred amongst themselves - not towards others.
Item 145 [9:29] : "Fight against Christians and Jews who disbelieve in Allah."
Unless they agree to live in peace and pay the Jizyah - a tax for non-Muslims - "and feel themselves subdued"
Item 146 [9:30] :"Christians and Jews are perverse. Allah himself fights against them."
Ysuf Ali : "The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!"
Item 147 [9:34] : "Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to Christians and Jews. " But the original sounds like doom for priests that ask for charitable donations and then do nothing with the money.
Yusuf Ali [9:34] : "O ye who believe! there are indeed many among the priests and anchorites, who in Falsehood devour the substance of men and hinder (them) from the way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah. Announce unto them a most grievous penalty"
Item 347 [62:5] "A hypocritical Jew looks like an ass carrying books. Those who deny the revelations of Allah are ugly"
Yusuf Ali : "The similitude of those who were charged with the (obligations of the) Mosaic Law, but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is that of a donkey which carries huge tomes (but understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the Signs of Allah. and Allah guides not people who do wrong."
All up to the usual SAB standard, it seems. Only Item 101 stands up to even the smallest amount of research. The only item I would ever use in an argument is [5:51], and I knew about that before reading SAB.
This was noted by Wudang in the above thread.
In item 25, SAB paraphrases [2:191] "Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers."
But before and after 191, there is:
[2:190] Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
[2:192] But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
[2:193] And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
To test the accuracy of the other SAB claims, I searched the page for "Jews" and found:
SAB paraphrase [2:61] as: "Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations."
Yusuf Ali's Translation of [2:61] refers to "slaying His Messengers without just cause" rather than simply killing prophets. But the main point is that SAB neglect to give us [2:62] "Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."
So if you unjustly kill prophets you're punished. If you believe in God and judgement (as Muslim, Jew, Christian or Sabean) and do good works, you're rewarded.
Item 10: "Jews are the greediest of all humankind"
How many of you, on reading that, think it refers to money and usury? But if you read the original, it's saying that the Jews are greedy for life, they want to live a 1000 years.
Items 61 and 62 [4:51]: "Jews and Christians believe in idols and false deities, yet they claim to be more rightly guided than Muslims. [4:52]Those (Christians and Jews) are they whom Allah hath cursed."
The original seems to be about those who, having been given scripture, invent lies about god. I don't see where it exempts Muslims.
Item 89 : "For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom."
Which makes it sound like it applies to all Jews. But the original more clearly states "We have prepared a stern chastisement for those of them that disbelieve."
Item 93: "Allah has cursed the Jews and hardened their hearts. Nearly all of them are treacherous." [5:12-13]
Yusuf Ali's translation : "But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind."
It's not talking about general trust-worthiness. The context is changing the word of God. Muslims are told to forgive and overlook that.
Item 101: "Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them."
At last.
A claim where I have to do more than just read the original.
Abdullah Yusuf Ali translates [5:51] (number [5:54] in other places) as "O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."
And, in his notes, he says "That is, look not to them for help and comfort."
Item 102 [5:53] : "Jews and Christians are losers"
But Yusuf Ali's translation of [5:53] says "And those who believe will say: 'Are these the men who swore their strongest oaths by Allah, that they were with you?' All that they do will be in vain, and they will fall into (nothing but) ruin." Yusuf ali's notes say this refers to Muslim hypocrites, ie: those that pretended to be Muslims. That's seems the most natural interpretation.
Item 103 [5:57] "Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians."
Original : "O ye who believe! take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport -- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have faith (indeed)."
Weaker than [5:51], it says don't be friends with those that make fun of your beliefs.
Item 104 [5:59]: "Jews and Christians are evil-livers."
Original [5:59] Say: "O people of the Book! Do ye disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah, and the revelation that hath come to us and that which came before (us), and (perhaps) that most of you are rebellious and disobedient?"
Item 106 [5:64] : "Allah has cast enmity and hatred among the Jews"
Yusuf Ali's notes say that it is enmity and hatred amongst themselves - not towards others.
Item 145 [9:29] : "Fight against Christians and Jews who disbelieve in Allah."
Unless they agree to live in peace and pay the Jizyah - a tax for non-Muslims - "and feel themselves subdued"
Item 146 [9:30] :"Christians and Jews are perverse. Allah himself fights against them."
Ysuf Ali : "The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!"
Item 147 [9:34] : "Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to Christians and Jews. " But the original sounds like doom for priests that ask for charitable donations and then do nothing with the money.
Yusuf Ali [9:34] : "O ye who believe! there are indeed many among the priests and anchorites, who in Falsehood devour the substance of men and hinder (them) from the way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah. Announce unto them a most grievous penalty"
Item 347 [62:5] "A hypocritical Jew looks like an ass carrying books. Those who deny the revelations of Allah are ugly"
Yusuf Ali : "The similitude of those who were charged with the (obligations of the) Mosaic Law, but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is that of a donkey which carries huge tomes (but understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the Signs of Allah. and Allah guides not people who do wrong."
All up to the usual SAB standard, it seems. Only Item 101 stands up to even the smallest amount of research. The only item I would ever use in an argument is [5:51], and I knew about that before reading SAB.