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Should we partition Iraq?

Tony

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
Mar 5, 2003
Messages
15,410
Kurd Sellout Watch, Day 421

http://slate.msn.com/id/2099574/ ...full article


"Iraq is not salvageable as a unitary state." So writes Peter Galbraith, America's pre-eminent Kurdophile, in the May 13 New York Review of Books ("How To Get Out of Iraq"). Leslie Gelb, formerly an assistant secretary in Jimmy Carter's State Department and subsequently a diplomatic correspondent for the New York Times, made a similar point on the Times op-ed page in November. Ralph Peters, a retired Army lieutenant colonel who writes on military strategy, has been calling for the breakup of Iraq for nearly a year. Reluctantly, Chatterbox is starting to think Galbraith, Gelb, and Peters have a point.

"The Iraq we're trying to herd back together," Peters wrote in July 2003, "consists of three distinct nations caged under a single, bloodstained flag." Iraq was famously invented in 1921 by Winston Churchill, then the British colonial secretary tasked with carving up the recently defeated Ottoman Empire. Churchill's main concern was to consolidate areas containing, or suspected to contain, oil fields. He achieved that at the expense of long-term political stability. From the start, mistrust existed between the country's three predominant groups: the Shiite Arabs in the south, the Sunni Arabs in the middle, and the Kurds, who weren't Arabs at all, in the north. A succession of regimes managed to yoke these three groups together only through varying degrees of repression, with Saddam's the most repressive of all. Short of putting a tanned, rested, and ready Saddam back in charge—a possibility we can surely rule out—government by repression is no longer an option.

Interesting article. Is such a plan politically feasible?
 
Has border drawing ever worked in the mid east?

Plus if teh Kurds get there own state Turkey will freak.
 
Tmy said:
Has border drawing ever worked in the mid east?

Plus if teh Kurds get there own state Turkey will freak.

Ditto. Nothing ever happens just by itself. There is always another consideration for why something can't just be easily solved. Otherwise, Dubya would have sewn it all up by now.

I, personally, think the Kurds should get their own state, and stuff the Turks. But then, I don't have to worry about how this impacts on everything else in the world.

Have you ever watched one of those things where someone stacks up all those dominoes in a line, and tips the first one over?
 
Tmy said:
Has border drawing ever worked in the mid east?

Plus if teh Kurds get there own state Turkey will freak.
Since Turkey would like to join the EU we could barter. Then again, what has the US to offer the EU for such a solution and what about the Kurds in Iran?
 
Problems in Iraq

It seems that even the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) has misgivings about the state of Iraq and where it will go from here.

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/04.21.04/cpa-0417.html

In particular:

Indeed, while boosters of the Iraqi invasion delight in the phrase "25 million free Iraqis," if the CPA memo is any indication, this newfound liberty does not include freedom from fear. "Baghdadis have an uneasy sense that they are heading towards civil war," it says. "Sunnis, Shias, and Kurd professionals say that they themselves, friends, and associates are buying weapons fearing for the future." The memo also notes that while Iraqi police "remain too fearful to enforce regulations," they are making a pretty penny as small-arms dealers, with the CPA as an unwitting partner. "CPA is ironically driving the weapons market," it reveals. "Iraqi police sell their U.S.-supplied weapons on the black market; they are promptly re-supplied. Interior ministry weapons buy-backs keep the price of arms high."
 
The problem w/ partitioning is how to divy up the oil fields, religious shrines, etc.
 
Tony said:
Kurd Sellout Watch, Day 421

http://slate.msn.com/id/2099574/ ...full article


Interesting article. Is such a plan politically feasible?
Maybe, but then again, is there really such thing as a politically feasible plan for anything in that part of the world!
The Kurds have been able to establish a stable society fairly quickly. I'd hate to see that upset by the Sunnis and Shiites gaining political power over them.

Fordama
 
I thought it was going to be split into Crude, Petrol and Diesel.
 
a_unique_person said:
One of the better sources for weapons for the VC in Vietnam was the US.
you are not wrong... one of the best sources was the minefields we layed outside major positions. Within days of laying the field the majority of the mines would be stolen and the remainder moved around to catch out people checking the field. We should have just left all the mines in the crates to save the VC and NVA the effort of digging them up. One smart Idea was to put boobytrap switches under some of them, this Idea also provided the VC and NVA with a goodly supply of F1 boobytrap switches.

We also regularly found unexploded ordinance lying around nicely cut open and the explosives and initiators removed.

Just incredibly resourcefull soldiers.....They could turn one rifle round, a nail and about half an hours spare time into a booby trap.
 
I dunno. I think it has a better chance of working than any of the other options. Of course, that's not saying a whole lot...

What I don't understand is why it is up to us to tell them what kind of government to have? Wasn't the whole point of this (ostensibly) so they could have the form of government they wanted? (No, of course it wasn't...)
 
Has it ever happened where a country consisting of fractious ethnic/religious/tribal groups became "free" and remained one country?
 
varwoche said:
Has it ever happened where a country consisting of fractious ethnic/religious/tribal groups became "free" and remained one country?
Yes, the Dutch managed it ca. 1650.
(Catholicism was a bit illegal though)

Let me clarify:
The Dutch didn't want the Spanish king anymore (after 1566 AD), Elizabeth I (England) and the king of Poland declined.
After 80 years of war the Netherlands became the first modern European democracy. Anything went as long as you weren't openly catholic (it lasted untill Napoleon conquered Europe).
If you wrote a book that would be illegal in your own country, you'd simply publish it in the Netherlands.
 
Any drawing of new borders or boundries should only be drawn by the Iraqi themselves.
 
Kodiak said:
Any drawing of new borders or boundries should only be drawn by the Iraqi themselves.
Can they draw it in such a way that the Kurds are completely excluded from any real power? I think the majority of Iraqis would prefer a plan like that.
 
Unfortunately, armed conflict is a historically common way to redraw national boundries.

I am hopeful, however, that the governing body being set up currently in Iraq will resort to equal representation and compromise instead.

Everyone involved must want it to succeed though, for it to work. I am not convinced that this is currently the case...
 

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