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Should we fear Bernie?

Hercules56

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Bernie's been in government for a few decades now. He seems like a nice guy who's never been able to do much with his ideas.

But happens if he wins? What happens if all of his ideas suddenly are backed by major power?

Millenials don't remember the evils of Socialism but many Gen Xers and Boomers do. We remember the Gulags, the Berlin Wall, the Khmer Rouge, the barbed wire, the purges, the brutally put down revolutions.

Bernie's supporters say "oh no, that wouldn't happen here, this time it will be peaceful, freedom-loving Socialism".

Well I've read the agenda of the DSA, which Bernie is a member of. They want to destroy capitalism, end national borders. They want to put the means of production and industry and wealth into the hands of "The People", which means mass-nationalization of industry, corporations, banks, the engines of commerce.

Every national manifestation of Socialism that the world has ever seen, has been an economic disaster, a human rights disaster, or both. Do we really want to give it another shot????
 
Hercules56 said:
Every national manifestation of Socialism that the world has ever seen, has been an economic disaster, a human rights disaster, or both. Do we really want to give it another shot????
Click to expand...

Garbage in, Garbage out. Most countries in western Europe are Socialist Democracies, and are doing just fine. And are freer and more democratic than the USA.
 
Bernie isn't a member of the DSA. He was endorsed by them, just like Kerry and Obama.
 
mumblethrax said:
So we can put you down for a "yes"?
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I'm concerned.

Bernie refuses to say he would support simply fixing Capitalism. I need him to abandon anything related to "socialism".

And there are definitely some Bernie-Bros who would indeed want reeducation camps, gulags, suspension of the 1st Amendment, in order to maintain power and control.
 
Hercules56 said:
Bernie's been in government for a few decades now. He seems like a nice guy who's never been able to do much with his ideas.

But happens if he wins? What happens if all of his ideas suddenly are backed by major power?

Millenials don't remember the evils of Socialism but many Gen Xers and Boomers do. We remember the Gulags, the Berlin Wall, the Khmer Rouge, the barbed wire, the purges, the brutally put down revolutions.

Bernie's supporters say "oh no, that wouldn't happen here, this time it will be peaceful, freedom-loving Socialism".

Well I've read the agenda of the DSA, which Bernie is a member of. They want to destroy capitalism, end national borders. They want to put the means of production and industry and wealth into the hands of "The People", which means mass-nationalization of industry, corporations, banks, the engines of commerce.

Every national manifestation of Socialism that the world has ever seen, has been an economic disaster, a human rights disaster, or both. Do we really want to give it another shot????
Click to expand...

You don't really understand the limitations of the US presidency, do you?
 
That's right. There's no room between our current right-wing austerity hellworld and authoritarian communism.

Unionized minorities are currently building guillotines in state owned factories just for Bernie.
 
Hercules56 said:
Bernie's been in government for a few decades now. He seems like a nice guy who's never been able to do much with his ideas.

But happens if he wins? What happens if all of his ideas suddenly are backed by major power?

Millenials don't remember the evils of Socialism but many Gen Xers and Boomers do. We remember the Gulags, the Berlin Wall, the Khmer Rouge, the barbed wire, the purges, the brutally put down revolutions.

Bernie's supporters say "oh no, that wouldn't happen here, this time it will be peaceful, freedom-loving Socialism".

Well I've read the agenda of the DSA, which Bernie is a member of. They want to destroy capitalism, end national borders. They want to put the means of production and industry and wealth into the hands of "The People", which means mass-nationalization of industry, corporations, banks, the engines of commerce.

Every national manifestation of Socialism that the world has ever seen, has been an economic disaster, a human rights disaster, or both. Do we really want to give it another shot????
Click to expand...

I suggest that you have Socialism and Communism confused. Try looking at the top 10 countries on these lists and compare your fears with their Socialistic policies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index


ETA: For those that can't be bothered looking at the links...

Five countries make all three lists as being in the Top Ten (11 for freedom since the last two have the same score) them being:

Norway
Sweden
New Zealand
Finland
Denmark

Six Countries make two of the Ten Ten for the lists, being:

Ireland
Canada
Australia
Switzerland
The Netherlands
Luxembourg

And four make it into the Top Ten on one list:

Iceland
Singapore
Germany
Uruguay

I'm pretty sure that despite their Socialistic policies, that none of these countries is a Communist hellhole.

ETA2: just for fun here is another list ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index just cause adding this one makes New Zealand the only country to appear in the top ten of all the lists. ;)
 
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Hercules56 said:
.....
Millenials don't remember the evils of Socialism but many Gen Xers and Boomers do. We remember the Gulags, the Berlin Wall, the Khmer Rouge, the barbed wire, the purges, the brutally put down revolutions.

Bernie's supporters say "oh no, that wouldn't happen here, this time it will be peaceful, freedom-loving Socialism".

Well I've read the agenda of the DSA, which Bernie is a member of. They want to destroy capitalism, end national borders. They want to put the means of production and industry and wealth into the hands of "The People", which means mass-nationalization of industry, corporations, banks, the engines of commerce.
.....
Click to expand...

This is absolutely ridiculous and I think you know it. Sanders is what used to be called a mainstream Democrat. Public colleges used to be cheap, sometimes free; even R. Nixon supported a universal health insurance plan. Sanders has never promoted or even talked about nationalizing industries, although he certainly supports tougher regulation of industries (particularly finance and energy) that have benefited by shifting their costs onto the public while reaping profits for themselves. What exactly are you ranting about?
 
theprestige said:
You don't really understand the limitations of the US presidency, do you?
Click to expand...

I understand that Bush, and Obama, and Trump have shown us that the President can do anything he wants as long as powerful people are willing to go along with it.

But yes, it does relieve some of my anxiety knowing that much of Bernie's agenda would never pass Congress.

I'm just worried about Executive Orders he might decide to issue, such as pardoning all Federal prisoners convicted of non-violent felonies, or declaring all illegal immigrants "legal", or disbanning ICE and CBP, who the hell knows what he might try to do.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
That's right. There's no room between our current right-wing austerity hellworld and authoritarian communism.

Unionized minorities are currently building guillotines in state owned factories just for Bernie.
Click to expand...

Did you see the video of the Bernie campaign organizer in Iowa who called for gulags and reeducation camps?
 
I'm having flashbacks to when people were terrified of that black Kenyan muslim who won the election some years ago.
 
PhantomWolf said:
I suggest that you have Socialism and Communism confused. Try looking at the top 10 countries on these lists and compare your fears with their Socialistic policies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
Click to expand...

Haha.

None of the countries in any of these top ten lists are "Socialist".

They are regulated Capitalist economies with a strong social safety net.

Its funny how so many people get "social democracy" confused with Socialism.

Unless a nation has nationalized all major means of production and engines of industry and commerce, factories & banks etc, they are NOT Socialist.
 
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