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should suicide be illegal?

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So, this guy tries to organize 32 others to commit suicide on Valentine's day. He has been arrested for solicitation to commit murder.

Now, I don't understand the logic behind this. People want to voluntarily kill themselves.

I think that is really nutty, but why should it be illegal? It isn't like the guy killed anyone, he simply attempted to organize a group suicide. That means anyone who participated would have done so voluntarily.

Now the story does mention that someone in the chat room stated they might kill their 2 kids first and then off themselves and that is wrong, but for the rest of the folks who were going to just remove themselves from among the living I don't see what is wrong with that. Nutty? Yes. Wrong? I don't see how.
 
username said:
Nutty? Yes. Wrong? I don't see how.

I guess the problem I have is seeing the difference between 'nutty' and 'legally insane'. To what extent are the actions of someone who's lost touch with reality voluntary?

I would like to think that if I was depressed enough to kill myself due to some chemical imbalance in my brain, someone would stop me and I would get treated.
 
I'd call it Darwin in action.

Besides, could they arrest 32 skeptics for staging a suicide using homeopathic arsenic?

"It is against the law to take one's own life; the penalty is death." —from A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum
 
I see...so suicide should only be allowed in the Capital? Congressmen can kill themselves all they want? Hey, I'm for that! :D
 
story

So, this guy tries to organize 32 others to commit suicide on Valentine's day. He has been arrested for solicitation to commit murder.

Now, I don't understand the logic behind this. People want to voluntarily kill themselves.


Most people who claim they want to die are, in fact, very ambivalent about the desire and, with time and treatment, would prefer to live. To encourage them to "organize" in a social setting with social pressure and organization to kill themselves IS encouraging murder, in the same way that knowingly giving a loaded gun to a drunk or someone high on drugs would be.
 
Yeah, encouraging people to do it should be (in certain circumstances) illegal.

But offing yourself should be completely legal provided you do so in a manner which doesn't harm anyone else.
 
Phrost said:
Yeah, encouraging people to do it should be (in certain circumstances) illegal.

But offing yourself should be completely legal provided you do so in a manner which doesn't harm anyone else.

Which begs the question: or they'll do WHAT? Fine you $50 and refuse to renew your driver's license?
 
username said:
story

So, this guy tries to organize 32 others to commit suicide on Valentine's day. He has been arrested for solicitation to commit murder.

Now, I don't understand the logic behind this. People want to voluntarily kill themselves.

I think that is really nutty, but why should it be illegal? It isn't like the guy killed anyone, he simply attempted to organize a group suicide. That means anyone who participated would have done so voluntarily.

Now the story does mention that someone in the chat room stated they might kill their 2 kids first and then off themselves and that is wrong, but for the rest of the folks who were going to just remove themselves from among the living I don't see what is wrong with that. Nutty? Yes. Wrong? I don't see how.

Suicide should be illegal and it should be a capital crime.
 
Has anyone whos attempted suicide and failed, ever been charged with attempted self murder?
 
Tmy said:
Has anyone whos attempted suicide and failed, ever been charged with attempted self murder?

I believe there has been at least 1 Kamakazi pilot that survived WWII -- I don't believe he was ever brought up on charges from the US or Japan.
 
This was supposedly to involve a women killing her two children and then herself, among other things, so this sick character either deserves some long term prison time, or a padded cell and lots of medication.
 
Just thinking said:
I believe there has been at least 1 Kamakazi pilot that survived WWII -- I don't believe he was ever brought up on charges from the US or Japan.

I've heard of him. His name was Chicken Teriyaki, right?
 
Someone said:
This was supposedly to involve a women killing her two children and then herself, among other things, so this sick character either deserves some long term prison time, or a padded cell and lots of medication.

That isn't my understanding. My understanding is that this man was organizing a mass suicide of willing participants. One of the people in a chat room discussing it made mention that she might take her kids with her. Another person in the chat room was disturbed by this and reported the plan to authorities.

I agree completely that the person who stated intent to kill the kids should be investigated and if it was anything other than a bad joke she should be charged.

However, I am not aware of any connection between this person and the organizer. To the best of my knowledge the organizer was soliciting volunteers only.

If the organizer knew of this person's intent and approved then yes, he ought to be charged as well, but that is not my understanding.
 
I only made that comment after a cursory glance, and so made myself look a little silly:o, but this ring or whatever appears to involve a lot of disturbed people. I hope a court can order her (if the attributed comment is authentic) to be committed to a psychiatric hospital for a very long time.
 
shanek said:
could they arrest 32 skeptics for staging a suicide using homeopathic arsenic?
Since it wasn't a suicide attempt no, it was a ridicilous media-stunt that wouldn't have killed them even if homopathy worked.
 
Someone said:
I only made that comment after a cursory glance, and so made myself look a little silly:o, but this ring or whatever appears to involve a lot of disturbed people.

As opposed to those non-disturbed people who want to commit suicide?

I am still trying to figure out how he can be considered guilty of any crime, especially murder. Each person is even providing their own means, so it's not like he's giving them a gun and saying, here, do it. Is there any indication he is even pressuring anyone?

Where is the murder in all this?
 
Firstly, it could be real, secondly, it might be a publicity seeking sham. Taking it first that it is not a cheap stunt, I could say one or two things.

Someone who wishes to organise the suicide of people as evidently disturbed as him, is surely not in his right mind. People who intend to kill themselves by this means are not sane. They are most certainly depressed, which itself is evidence of mental illness. People who wish to visit the ultimate form of self destruction on themselves, with no reason like paralysing illness and some other form of physical torment, are deranged.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it must be
a duck. If a person behaves in a deranged manner, and talks to others about it and persuades others to join him, then he is most surely not in possession of his faculties - he is insane. Disturbed people not in possession of their wits, their faculties, have to be protected from other deranged individuals, who wish to bring matters to a demented conclusion.

Either this man is intensely evil and or he is insane. There exists a duty on those in authority to protect vulnerable people from the likes of him, and to protect this same individual from himself.

Obviously this could well be nothing more than a sick little stunt. The man is unemployed and could well wish to gain some employment through attracting fame or notoriety. I think it quite likely that the second possibility is the correct one; that it is a stunt.

But as this story indicates, it would have involved murder of children if true.

An Oregon man who recently moved from Northern California has been arrested on suspicion of soliciting women and children on the Internet for a Valentine's Day mass suicide on the lawn of his parents' home.

Dean Krein, 26, was arrested Wednesday in Klamath Falls, a town of 20,000 just 15 miles north of the California border.

Krein was arraigned Thursday on a charge of solicitation to commit murder. That charge stems from one woman he contacted who apparently planned to kill her two children before she killed herself, said Capt. Chris Montenaro of the Klamath County Sheriff's Department.

Montenaro said authorities were alerted to the plan on Tuesday by a Canadian woman who was to participate in what Krein called his "suicide party. "

"When she discovered that (the killing of children) was to occur, she got uneasy," Montenaro said. After Krein's arrest, police searched his parents' home, where he lived, and seized his computer.

Montenaro said Krein had moved from Northern California -- investigators were still trying to determine from where -- and his parents had previously lived in Sacramento and its suburb of Citrus Heights. Krein was reportedly unemployed and moved to Klamath Falls to care for his father.

The Canadian woman printed conversations from a Yahoo chat room where Krein allegedly discussed the killing of children as part of the mass suicide, Montenaro said, adding that authorities are trying to locate those children.

So far, sheriff's investigators have identified several individuals who planned to travel to Klamath Falls for the mass suicide. Krein solicited as many as 32 people for the event, authorities said. Investigators at the sheriff's department have subpoenaed chat room conversations and user names from Yahoo and say they are racing the clock to identify as many people as possible before Monday. The chat room was online for several months and Montenaro said he did not know how many people had planned to travel to Oregon to commit suicide.

A Yahoo spokeswoman said Friday afternoon that she was unaware of the situation and could not immediately comment on the company's role in the investigation.

While the mass suicide was to happen in Oregon, authorities worry that some may now do it on their own. Krein has refused to talk to investigators since his arrest, Montenaro said. "He is all but clammed up."

Sfgate.com

I think it likely that child murder, particularly child murder done in public, is rather illegal in Oregon. Public murder-suicide is not something a person has a right to commit.

What is indicated in the article seems utterly criminal.
 
Someone said:
I think it likely that child murder, particularly child murder done in public, is rather illegal in Oregon. Public murder-suicide is not something a person has a right to commit.

What is indicated in the article seems utterly criminal.

So arrest the person who is planning on committing murder.

Is there any indication that the guy in Oregon, the one they arrested, had anything to do with her plan to kill her children?
 
Just thinking said:
I believe there has been at least 1 Kamakazi pilot that survived WWII -- I don't believe he was ever brought up on charges from the US or Japan.

In case you didn't know it, the Kamikazes were under strict orders to not throw their lives out uselessly so they had to return back if they couldn't find their targets. Some pilots made three or four flights before finally striking.

Of course, by that time the Japanese pilots had so little training that even staying airborne was a major feat, not to mention all the problems of navigating over open sea and numerous Allied fighter planes roaming all over so a vast majority of Kamikazes did throw their lives in vain in the end.
 

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