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Alkatran

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I'm writing a philosophy paper and I was just wondering what you guys think of the idea of using a Turing test on Cartesion dualism.

If dualism exists, then copying the physical brain of a person to a computer will miss the mind and the functionality will be very different. However, if it isn't true the functionality should be very similat.

(wouldn't want to get nailed for plagiarism if this shows up!)
CMG417159
 
"Copying the physical brain" sounds like a bit of a technical challenge, but I like the idea.

One trouble might be that human brains are constantly aware of sensations from the outside, and these may affect cognition. A brain that was isolated from all sensation would probably figure out "hey it's dark in here", pretty quickly, and tip off the questioner that it was the computer. It might also figure out a cheap shallow simulation pretty quickly. So now you'd have to model a good chunk of the immediate universe to fool it.

Since the "dualist" perspective seems to be a point of religion (at least on these forums), you would need take special care to get the dualists to agree before such an experiment that their philosophy is being falsified. Otherwise, (assuming a negative result), you might get all kinds of excuses about how, sure, your objective bias failed to truly sense the mind.

You should probably spell "cartesian" correctly too.
 
Alkatran said:
I'm writing a philosophy paper and I was just wondering what you guys think of the idea of using a Turing test on Cartesion dualism.

If dualism exists, then copying the physical brain of a person to a computer will miss the mind and the functionality will be very different. However, if it isn't true the functionality should be very similat.

(wouldn't want to get nailed for plagiarism if this shows up!)
CMG417159
Click to expand...

This is what my novel is about, you plagarist!

Seriously, good luck. :)
 
Dualism would suggest that mind is separate from brain. It seems to me that the "mind" could be put into another "brain". If dualism were false, then mind and brain would be inseparable.
 
Alkatran said:
If dualism exists, then copying the physical brain of a person to a computer will miss the mind and the functionality will be very different. However, if it isn't true the functionality should be very similat.
Click to expand...
I'm reasonably certain there is a plan to do this now. IIRC Bill Gates in conjuction with Paul Allen is funding the maping of the brain (I think they are starting with something other than the human brain) and using reverse engineering to recreate the brain in hopes to better understand it. I'm googling but can't find it at the moment. I read an article in Time or Newsweek magazine.
 
arthwollipot said:
Dualism would suggest that mind is separate from brain. It seems to me that the "mind" could be put into another "brain". If dualism were false, then mind and brain would be inseparable.
Click to expand...
I think a dualist would argue that such a brain could/would function like any human brain (see P-Zombies) but not have self awarness.
 
If dualism exists, then copying the physical brain of a person to a computer will miss the mind and the functionality will be very different. However, if it isn't true the functionality should be very similat.
Click to expand...

The above response is about right, and the dualist could also argue that minds are tied to brains in distinctive ways such that the appearance, however it comes about, of another brain would result in the appearance of another mind to connect to it. (Or perhaps minds are floating around emptily and an already existing one would attach to the body in question - whatever.)

Empirical tests of philosophic theses generally go astray - philosophic theses tend to be constructed in ways that leave all the empirical stuff the same.
 
Eleatic Stranger said:
The above response is about right, and the dualist could also argue that minds are tied to brains in distinctive ways such that the appearance, however it comes about, of another brain would result in the appearance of another mind to connect to it. (Or perhaps minds are floating around emptily and an already existing one would attach to the body in question - whatever.)

Empirical tests of philosophic theses generally go astray - philosophic theses tend to be constructed in ways that leave all the empirical stuff the same.
Click to expand...

Ah, a new mind could hook up to the computer. Didn't think of that one... But surely this is a different mind and won't act the same? And if it was the same mind, the person would start freaking out because he was doing everything 'twice'!

I actually finished the paper with a few unresolvable problems about the test. Such as maybe machines can't be conscious (if conscious is physical) and this would end up in differences even though materialism was true. You could also end up with a same-ending if the brain mimmicked what the mind did exactly.
 
RandFan said:
I think a dualist would argue that such a brain could/would function like any human brain (see P-Zombies) but not have self awarness.
Click to expand...

They would also lack oogly-boogliness, and many other traits that are not observable.
 
Ok, new question: Am I morally justified in deleting this post so it doesn't get tagged if they search for plagiarism?
 
Alkatran said:
Ok, new question: Am I morally justified in deleting this post so it doesn't get tagged if they search for plagiarism?
Click to expand...

Morally, you can do what you want. Technically, you cannot delete the post.

What part of this thread did you steal for your paper? What do you think plagarism is? Who is "they"?
 
Piscivore said:
Who is "they"?
Click to expand...
they.jpg
 
Piscivore said:
Morally, you can do what you want. Technically, you cannot delete the post.

What part of this thread did you steal for your paper? What do you think plagarism is? Who is "they"?
Click to expand...

My teacher is they.
 
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