Merged Sexual Harrasment, after the fact? (Inez Sainz)

[C_Felix]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/13/new-york-jets-kicks-off-season-facing-harassment-claim/?hpt=T2

“It was definitely a joking tone, very amicable," Sainz said, regarding the tone Sanchez had with her. “I wasn’t offended.”

...but...when it was pointed out to her, that there could've been alterior motives, her tune changes...

“I was surprised to wake up on Sunday and have a call from the NFL , saying that they wanted to talk to me about what had happened at the Jets; and I asked… what happened?" Sainz told TV Azteca. "And they said well there is a pretty powerful accusation of harassment and then it was at that point I realized the magnitude of what had happened. “

So, is it okay for her to change her feelings on the subject when she was fine with it, after, and only after, someone pointed out to her that what happened wan't "all in good fun"

Now, granted, I'm a believer in 'guilty until provnen innocent', so I think the Jets will have to be shown and proven as harrassers and that the passes went near her with intent so..uh..the players could get closer to her, or to force her to turn around so the coach could get a look at (her awesome) butt.

It is also worth nothing, that whoever complained isn't mentioned.

What if it was an outsider?
Can outsider A complain to an orginization (The NFL) that he/she has no afflitation with, about a possible harrassment charge?

 

[Lyrandar]

This seems strange to me. I view harassment of any type as being entirely dependent on what the victim thinks and feels about the situation. If she doesn't have a problem with it, I'd say it wasn't harassment.

That said, I don't have a problem with her changing her mind later. I can think of a couple situations where I took something as a joke initially and only started to feel offended after anywhere from a few minutes to an hour to process what had just happened. I'm not sure if that quite matches the situation presented, though.

 

[Weak Kitten]

Sexual harassment is one of those things that always seems to be floating over my head in my line of work. I'm a female artist working in the Silicon Valley and I find myself in a lot of situations where I am the only woman in the group.
I try to put the guys at ease and let them just talk however they like but every so often things will get a bit "locker room" and then everyone will suddenly stop and look at me with this wild, panicked look in their eyes. The fact that I can just brush it off and get everyone to feel comfortable again has been a real boon to me thus far and I think knowing that I am easy going has stood me in good stead as a contractor.

 

[sthomson]

I view harassment of any type as being entirely dependent on what the victim thinks and feels about the situation. If she doesn't have a problem with it, I'd say it wasn't harassment.

I was always taught that it was the other way. Even if the target of harassment was "OK" with it, that does not make it OK. Especially in a case like this, where there are bystanders who can be equally affected by the harrasment.

Furthermore, I think the quote in the OP is taken out of context. She said that the tone that Sanchez took with her was very amicable...

But she did say in the interview that she didn't hear everything said about her - and apparently several other members of the media took the interactions much more seriously. She added perhaps they heard something she hadn't.

There's another factor here - the way that female professionals in male-dominated venues essentially have to learn to ignore this sort of behavior just to get through the day. It's hellaciously tiring and we couldn't function if we fully realized the extent that we are not equals because we are women.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Well she does say that she didn't hear everything that was shouted at her and that maybe the media heard stuff that was worse. Is it fair to get offended by something you didn't hear at the time, but you find out later was directed at you?

Also, whether she was offended or not, would the people doing this have cared? Did they check she was ok with it first. And sports teams have an image to uphold too, so that has to be factored into it.

 

[Captain.Sassy]

Well she does say that she didn't hear everything that was shouted at her and that maybe the media heard stuff that was worse. Is it fair to get offended by something you didn't hear at the time, but you find out later was directed at you?

Good question. If two people comment to each other in what they assume is a private conversation about a third person, e.g. make comments about that person's sexual attractiveness, is that sexual harassment? Is it harassment if it is overheard by a third person? By the person who is the subject of the comments?

 

[Alferd_Packer]

So, a couple of guys were trying to get her attention and this is harrasment?

stupid, maybe, but harrasement, no.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

The NFL says it’s investigating and The Association for Women in Sports Media says the Jets and the league have been responsive to their concerns. They also say on their website that they plan to hold an educational session for the Jets this week or next.

I feel for the guys that will have to sit through that nonsense.

 

[Dancing David]

Apparently she made a trwitter about her discomfort and then spoke with the NFL
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-jets-femalereporter

“I feel very uncomfortable! I’m at the lockers of the Jets waiting for Mark Sanchez while trying not to look anywhere!!” Sainz tweeted in Spanish on Saturday night.

Sainz thanked supporters Monday on Twitter for their concern.

“I already spoke to the NFL and it will be up to them to decide whether or not there will be consequences!!” she tweeted.

 

[Lyrandar]

I was always taught that it was the other way. Even if the target of harassment was "OK" with it, that does not make it OK. Especially in a case like this, where there are bystanders who can be equally affected by the harrasment.

Furthermore, I think the quote in the OP is taken out of context. She said that the tone that Sanchez took with her was very amicable...

... I hadn't considered other people nearby who might be offended, and I can certainly agree with the point that offensive behavior isn't OK no matter what the victim thinks.

I can think of some situations where behavior not normally considered offensive might be OK if the target of that behavior doesn't mind, but really, the way I learned it emphasized much more that such behavior can still be harassment if it offends the victim.

There's another factor here - the way that female professionals in male-dominated venues essentially have to learn to ignore this sort of behavior just to get through the day. It's hellaciously tiring and we couldn't function if we fully realized the extent that we are not equals because we are women.

Won't get any argument from me on this one. Some of the jokes I hear people tell when there aren't any girls around (and sometimes even when there are!) are incredibly misogynistic, yet nobody seems to mind.

 

[Puppycow]

Wow, she is a hottie. Former Miss Spain according to the article. CNN doesn't seem to have a problem with showing sexy pictures of her. So, she trades on her sex appeal. I'm not exactly surprised that a locker room of football players would notice that and there would be some "hooting and hollering." Is that all?

 

[theprestige]

I have no idea if this is what happened in the Sainz case, but what about the scenario where people are making you an object of ridicule in front of an audience that knows what they're up to and finds it amusing, but for whatever reason (innocence, distraction, naivete, etc.), you don't realize until later that they were making sexual jokes at your expense for the amusement of others?

 

[C_Felix]

Wow, she is a hottie. Former Miss Spain according to the article. CNN doesn't seem to have a problem with showing sexy pictures of her. So, she trades on her sex appeal. I'm not exactly surprised that a locker room of football players would notice that and there would be some "hooting and hollering." Is that all?

Good point!
I think it is a safe assumption she uses her sex appeal as part of her schtick.

So, if she puts that out there, should she have to take both the good and bad results/consequences that come with her decision?

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/09/13/jets-owner-apologizes-female-tv-reporter/

However, the correspondent is now saying her claims were being taken out of proportion. In an interview with Mexican TV station DeporTV Monday, Sainz said she never felt offended and that the whole situation was taken out of context.

"In my opinion, I never felt attacked, nor that they reacted grossly toward me," she said. "I arrived in the locker room, and there were comments and games. One of the other reporters came up to me and apologized for what was happening, but I thought (the players) were joking around."

 

[sgtbaker]

Wow, she is a hottie. Former Miss Spain according to the article. CNN doesn't seem to have a problem with showing sexy pictures of her. So, she trades on her sex appeal. I'm not exactly surprised that a locker room of football players would notice that and there would be some "hooting and hollering." Is that all?

I am sorry, but that wreaks a little of the "girls wearing tight shirts are a stumbling block for good Christian boys" thread.
A low cut shirt does not justify a loss of manners. I am not commenting on this particular case because I didn't read the article (having trouble loading) but a woman should be able to dress provacotavely without having to expect cat calls. That attitude also give men too little credit for their impulse control.

 

[sthomson]

A local NJ reporter made a good point on NPR last night:

The way Ms. Sainz was dressed, and her former title as Miss Spain, are irrelevant. The Jets PR team gave her a press pass, therefore she was acting in a professional capacity and should have been treated as such. If she were inappropriately dressed, then the professional response is to make a complaint to the Jets PR department.

The privileged juvenile response is to, as I've heard, hoot and holler when she comes in the room, then stand behind her while she's giving an interview and dramatically ogle her.

Edited to add: Personally, I think it's very unfair to the team to allow press into the locker room at all. That doesn't excuse the player's behavior, of course.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I'm in favor of anything that will get in between the media and the koran burning pastor.

More stories involving buxom blondes, please.

 

[Captain.Sassy]

a woman should be able to dress provacotavely without having to expect cat calls. That attitude also give men too little credit for their impulse control.

"Provocative" dress is "provocative" because it provokes a reaction. Provocative dress highlights sexually appealing features, presumably with the goal of evoking a sexual reaction on some level. I'm not saying that hooting and hollering is acceptable, but what reaction to provocative dress would be acceptable?

I mean, if you dress sexy, at the very least you can likely expect to be looked at more than someone not dressing sexy. But aren't unwanted stares or attention sexual harassment?

Also, if someone dresses provocatively at work vs. in a non-work situation, how are the levels of acceptable reaction to this dress different?

 

[sthomson]

...presumably with the goal of evoking a sexual reaction on some level.

This is a pretty big presumption.

 

[Captain.Sassy]

OK then why don't you educate me on the real objective of provocative/sexy dress.

 

[sthomson]

OK then why don't you educate me on the real objective of provocative/sexy dress.

"Provocative" is in the eye of the beholder. I've seen video of her interview, and she was wearing pants and a full-cover button-up shirt. Can you point out, what, exactly, is provocative about it? I posit that the most provocative thing about her outfit is that she's a woman who fits conventional beauty standards. To me, it has nothing to do with her clothing.

If provocative is subjective, then how can I figure out what will provocate any particular heterosexual man that I meet in a day?