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Send in the tanks! (Chavez)

Giggywig

Master Poster
Giggywig
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
2,851
So it seems Chavez is ratcheting up the rhetoric in the run up to elections in a couple of weeks:
On 9 November, President Hugo Chávez declared that he might send tanks on to the streets in the state of Carabobo if the opposition wins in provincial elections scheduled for 23 November.
link
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The speech in question:

If you allow that the oligarchy and above all [some opposition guy] return to power, I might end up taking out the tanks of the armored brigade to defend the revolutionary government and to defend the people of Carabobo.
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You may argue that this is just rhetoric, but imagine if Bush had said he would bring out the tanks to defend the people if McCain had lost? Even joking that would have been a chilling statement. We may find out in a couple of weeks if Chavez was joking or not.
 
More interestingly, Chavez confirms that he wants to obtain nuclear material from Russia. (From the video).
 
Venezuela's Elections of November 23: A Briefing

[...] Over 5000 candidates will contest 603 elections for 22 state governors, 328 mayors, 233 state legislative councillors and a range of other local positions. 17 million Venezuelans will have the opportunity to vote in these elections.

The elections will be the 14th set of national votes held since 1998 when Hugo Chávez was first elected as President. Hugo Chávez and his coalition of supporters have won 12 of the 13 previous national elections and referenda. This is in stark contrast to the 40 years prior to President Chávez‘s election, when only 15 national electoral contests were staged in Venezuela.

Elections under the government of Hugo Chavez have been verified as free and fair by a range of independent international observers including the Organisation of American States, the European Union and the US Carter Centre. A total of 134 foreign observers will take part in November's election, according to Venezuela's independent National Electoral Council (CNE). The observers will come from 34 member countries of the Organization of American States (OAS), and include representatives of electoral organizations from America, Europe, Africa and Asia.

With regards to equality, half of the candidates standing in the local and regional elections will be women, following the implementation of legislation to ensure gender equality earlier this year. This is a tremendous advance for women in Venezuela - when these elections were last contested in 2004, 82% of candidates were male and 18% female. [...]
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I see that Childlike Empress has no problems with dictators and authoritarian rule so long as they are left wing.
 
Giggywig said:
You may argue that this is just rhetoric, but imagine if Bush had said he would bring out the tanks to defend the people if McCain had lost? Even joking that would have been a chilling statement. We may find out in a couple of weeks if Chavez was joking or not.
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Bush has no history of attempting to bring out the militry to hold onto or gain power. Chavez has tried to carry out a militry coup attempt in the past.
 
I guess Chavez is just like Mikheil Saakashvili? Both are dictators. America supports Mikheil Saakashvili but not Chavez.
 
edit: @dudalb

Wrong.

Now explain to us how Chavez, who is president of a country which happens to have the thirteenth national vote under his rule today, is a dictator, dudalb. I'm listening.
 
Childlike Empress said:
edit: @dudalb

Wrong.

Now explain to us how Chavez, who is president of a country which happens to have the thirteenth national vote under his rule today, is a dictator, dudalb. I'm listening.
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Did you miss the quote about the tanks in the OP, both post and title?
 
No. Why? As the OP said:

We may find out in a couple of weeks if Chavez was joking or not.
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Jushchenko said he will NOT use tanks against the parliament. We will find out if that was a true statement when he left office. Yeltzin didn't say he will use tanks against the parliament. He simply did it.
 
I know you grew up in a despicable dictatorship, so your ignorance is understandable.

However, in a normal democratic country, leaders with a history of launching coups do not joke about sending in tanks if the vote goes against them. That sort of thing, is rightly, considered to be voter intimidation.
 
The problem is that the 'useful idiots' of the world have the luxury of deciding that Chavez is joking. The voters of Venezuela are the ones who will be facing Chavez's tanks if he is not joking.
 
gtc said:
The problem is that the 'useful idiots' of the world have the luxury of deciding that Chavez is joking. The voters of Venezuela are the ones who will be facing Chavez's tanks if he is not joking.
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It was the voters of Venezuela that got shot by those engineering the coup against Chavez in 2002 when their march was redirected towards the palace.

Chavez was returned to power by the power of the people. And surely no one here implied he is a dictator? :jaw-dropp
 
Tin Foil Timothy said:
Chavez was returned to power by the power of the people. And surely no one here implied he is a dictator? :jaw-dropp
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I might end up taking out the tanks of the armored brigade to defend the revolutionary governmen
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Read that again. Once you do, look at the history of how one party states have faired since 1917. Then, please tell me why that does not bother you.

Thanks.

DR
 
Venezuela has 85 registered parties.

I'm certainly not defending everything Chavez says, the guy is loudmouthed and very emotional. But talk doesn't make him a dictator. Furthermore, given the history of corporate media reporting on Venezuela, i'm suspecting that the quote is out of context. I searched for a transcript but didn't find one. Here is the best i've found:

El Presidente said:
"Les repito que el Chávez de 2002 quedó atrás. En el supuesto que la oligarquía tome la Gobernación de Carabobo, en ese supuesto, el año que viene sería un año de guerra. Ellos quieren tumbarme, y no voy a permitir que me tumben. Ustedes tienen el instrumento. Les habló a la gente honesta de Carabobo. Mario Silva es la garantía de paz, y la oligarquía la garante de la guerra. Escojan ustedes el camino. Si la oligarquía y el ¿polluelo pitiyanqui golpista ¿regresan a la gobernación, a lo mejor voy a terminar sacando los tanques de la Brigada Blindada para defender al gobierno revolucionario, y al pueblo de Carabobo."
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which Google translates to

"I repeat that Chavez was back in 2002. In the event that the oligarchy take the governor of Carabobo, in that event next year would be a year of war. They want to lie down, and I will not allow me grave. You have the instrument. I spoke to the honest people of Carabobo. Mario Silva is the guarantee of peace, the oligarchy and the guarantor of the war. Choose your route. If the oligarchy and the ¿chicken coup pitiyanqui you come back to the governorate , Maybe I will finish pulling tanks Armored Brigade to defend the revolutionary government, and people of Carabobo. "
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The context doesn't change what he said one iota.

Google translation is obviously a very poor translator but it does confirm that he said:

If you allow that the oligarchy and above all [some opposition guy] return to power, I might end up taking out the tanks of the armored brigade to defend the revolutionary government and to defend the people of Carabobo.
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Talk doesn't make you a dictator but voter intimidation doesn't make a democracy.
 
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