Selfish with your powers?

[Tricky]

I was moved to starting this post because of something Bratok said on another thread (which I do not wish to derail).

question: Can they be seen by anyone, even those without training of any sort?

A person who has trained in that field can "pump" his energy to the level that ordinary people can see it as a certain glowing mist.

Question: Do they have some sort of electrical effect, like static electricity, or possibly some magnetic effect? Can they be photographed? Filmed?

The only today probably(!!!) possible energy photographing known to me is the Kirlian effect. Before saying that it's just a static discharge, note that it will simply outline a "dead" object ( a coin, for example ) and form an interesting pattern around a living one ( a leaf or a finger, for example ). You can say "ah... it's just because of the moisture", well... it is being studied.

Question: Instead, let me just ask - do you know what a double-blinded trial is, and how to construct one?

I can say that I know what remote feeling ( touching ) is. And, of course, people who can do it are testing / training themselfs. For example, they, blindfolded, tell someone to place some object on the table and they describe it, without physically touching.

Comment: Second, as for the "remote feeling" capability, I think you will find that there is just so much tested evidence that shows that "remote feeling" and "remote viewing and similar "capabilities" are illusory that I should not have to find them for you.

The joke here is that this kind of people, who really can do it, mostly just aren't interested in running around, proving things that are obvious to them.

That last statement is of great interest to me. Why are people with these powers so selfish? You would think that they would want their powers studied so that they could be identified, refined and improved for the good of mankind. Instead, they hoard them to themselves. Oh yeah, they'll tell others how to get them, but to researchers who want to study them, it's a big "nyet".

Sometimes you'll see someone who has made a "paranormal discovery", like Penta Waterâ„¢ and their first response is to try to make a buck off of this discovery, rather than to submit it for scientific study. How incredibly greedy! How unlike real science.

Is there something about paranormal powers or knowledge that automatically transforms the posessor into a selfish bast@rd?

 

[bratok]

Hmm... a few days ago I went to the zoo and overheard two monkeys talking
- Yeah, right, so you are saying that out there are this big monkeys, with almost no fur, that have super-powers? That they can jump into a roaring metal beast and drive where ever they want? That they can use a small box to talk with someone on the other side of the world? That they have giant metal birds that can take them to another continet??? Then why aren't they showing their powers to us? Are they so selfish? Why they are nor helping use, by giving us tons and tons of bananas??? I know, I'll give my last 10 bananas to anybody who would show me his powers!

They are not selfish, then feel sad when looking at ordinary people, they'd love to help them, but they can't.

They see that if a human would give his power to monkeys, monkeys would use this powers only to fulfill their monkey instincts - kill all competitors, get a heap of bananas and die happy eating them.
Yet if a monkey is not given a heap of bananas and the only banana around is hanging in a palm tree, our monkey has to start using its brain to find a way of getting it down. This is called evolution. Bit by bit, solving problems, the monkey would become smarter and eventually it might turn into a human.

If cave people would have all they'd want - girls, food, wine ... would there be any progress?

>> Is there something about paranormal powers or knowledge that automatically transforms the posessor into a selfish bast@rd?

So once again - this powers can be used for both personal degradation - getting a heap of bananas ( 1m$ , a sports car, sunbathing on the beach with 2 girls ) and for personal evolution.
Luckily, those who would use them for fulfilling of instincts, for degradation, are lazy enough and do have lots of "blocks" preventing them from developing this powers. They, the lazy ones, want someone else to give him his powers.

Yet those, who want to get powers to get wiser, who want to use their own head instead of instincts, they start searching and find a way to develop their powers.

I hope we had made a nice example of skeptic / non-skeptic dialogue

 

[Tricky]

Hmm... a few days ago I went to the zoo and overheard two monkeys talking
- Yeah, right, so you are saying that out there are this big monkeys, with almost no fur, that have super-powers? That they can jump into a roaring metal beast and drive where ever they want? That they can use a small box to talk with someone on the other side of the world? That they have giant metal birds that can take them to another continet??? Then why aren't they showing their powers to us? Are they so selfish? Why they are nor helping use, by giving us tons and tons of bananas??? I know, I'll give my last 10 bananas to anybody who would show me his powers!

They are not selfish, then feel sad when looking at ordinary people, they'd love to help them, but they can't.

Scientists would be thrilled to give their "superpowers" to monkeys. There have been countless experiments to try to get animals to learn what humans know and to do the things humans do. There are whole fields of study devoted to things like ape and dolphin communication, plus all sorts of behavioral studies that try to get animals to learn to do the things humans do. The things they do are rigorously examined by other scientists to verify whether or not they are making progress.

You have chosen a very bad example to make your point.

They see that if a human would give his power to monkeys, monkeys would use this powers only to fulfill their monkey instincts - kill all competitors, get a heap of bananas and die happy eating them.
Yet if a monkey is not given a heap of bananas and the only banana around is hanging in a palm tree, our monkey has to start using its brain to find a way of getting it down. This is called evolution. Bit by bit, solving problems, the monkey would become smarter and eventually it might turn into a human.

If cave people would have all they'd want - girls, food, wine ... would there be any progress?

So are you saying that people with superpowers, like yourself, are somehow more advanced than others and that you can't give ordinary people these powers because we'd only use them for our own gain? Well show me what you've done to better humanity with your powers.

But this isn't really the question. You say that anybody, even an evil person, can learn them, so it isn't a question of protecting people from this knowledge. It is a matter of showing us that it works. This is where refuse to help society with your knowledge. I don't consider this the behavior of a superior type of human.

By the way, you are being very insulting to monkeys. Monkeys, as a general rule, don't engage in conquest of other monkeys. They don't kill each other for bananas. You seem to think that less "advanced" species are always greedy and murderous. I wonder where you get those ideas.

Tricky said:
Is there something about paranormal powers or knowledge that automatically transforms the posessor into a selfish bast@rd?

So once again - this powers can be used for both personal degradation - getting a heap of bananas ( 1m$ , a sports car, sunbathing on the beach with 2 girls ) and for personal evolution.
Luckily, those who would use them for fulfilling of instincts, for degradation, are lazy enough and do have lots of "blocks" preventing them from developing this powers. They, the lazy ones, want someone else to give him his powers.

I have no evidence that you or any of your other fellow superpower folks have used or will use their powers for anything good. Perhaps you could provide me with a few verifiable examples. It looks to me like you are the greedy selfish ones.
And by the way,how do the "superpowers" know whether the person learning them is going to use them for degradation or not? Or are they granted by some deity who judges the intent?

Yet those, who want to get powers to get wiser, who want to use their own head instead of instincts, they start searching and find a way to develop their powers.

I'm one of those. I am a firm believe in using my mind to overcome bad instincts. But tell me, what better way to find ways to develop powers than to have them studied? It doesn't sound like you're searching too hard for ways to develop your powers.

I hope we had made a nice example of skeptic / non-skeptic dialogue

I hope so too. And I hope you will come up with some better reasons why you refuse to have your powers tested and studied for the betterment of humanity.

 

[bratok]

So are you saying that people with superpowers, like yourself, are somehow more advanced than others and that you can't give ordinary people these powers because we'd only use them for our own gain? Well show me what you've done to better humanity with your powers.

But this isn't really the question. You say that anybody, even an evil person, can learn them, so it isn't a question of protecting people from this knowledge. It is a matter of showing us that it works. This is where refuse to help society with your knowledge. I don't consider this the behavior of a superior type of human.

I do not have anything that one could call SUPER-POWERS first of all!

But yes, people with powers are much more advanced then ordianry people. They understnad their true wishes, as well as lots and lots of other things.

Yet your philosofy - why aren's they doing anything for the humanity??? - , so to say, is like the one of a tipical lazy member of society. No offences, of cource.

Ordinary people always want someone to do everything for them. They want doctors, scientists, Super-Heors or who ever to cure all their deseases, feed them, warm them, buy them a Mercedes, eliminate all terrorists, etc.

But those, more advanced people, see that if they will grand all wishes of simple people their progress would stop.

If a monkey would be given a heap of bananas, it won't learn to use a stick and get them off a tree.

I have no evidence that you or any of your other fellow superpower folks have used or will use their powers for anything good. Perhaps you could provide me with a few verifiable examples. It looks to me like you are the greedy selfish ones.

And once again - solving someones problems for him is not good. If he has a problem, it means that he has to learn to take care of it.

If you give someone a fish, you have feed him for a day. If you teach him to catsh fish, you have feed him for life.

So this people are glad to share their knowlege of how to reveal that and that power with people who are ready for it and would be able to use it for true progress of their own life.

And by the way,how do the "superpowers" know whether the person learning them is going to use them for degradation or not? Or are they granted by some deity who judges the intent?

A too lazy or too irresponsible person, who would missuse them, is not looking for them and most likly they would never come his way.

When the person becomes more-or-less advanced he already does not need or want to hurt others. He loves them

As well as I heard that certain exercises, in certain traditions, are performed at a very heigh positive emotional peak. So that the perosn who has this powers can not use them if he has negative emotions.

I'm one of those. I am a firm believe in using my mind to overcome bad instincts. But tell me, what better way to find ways to develop powers than to have them studied? It doesn't sound like you're searching too hard for ways to develop your powers.

I believe that people who truly revialed certains seriuos powers, do know all they need to know about them and do not see a point in studying them.

By the way, you are being very insulting to monkeys. Monkeys, as a general rule, don't engage in conquest of other monkeys. They don't kill each other for bananas.

This was a methafore. Monkeys maybe do not kill each other for bananas. Yet some people do ...

Anyway, if you also want to develop some basic powers, I'd suggest you to read this book:
http://www.deir.lv/HTML/Books_All/Book1.htm
It's in Russian so you'de have to use an auto-translator.

And then you would be able to do all you want to with this powers. Use them for the "good" of humanity, study them or get 1m$.


Good Luck!

 

[Tricky]

I do not have anything that one could call SUPER-POWERS first of all!

But you said:

A person who has trained in that field can "pump" his energy to the level that ordinary people can see it as a certain glowing mist.

Okay, so maybe that person is not you, but apparently there is someone else you know who can do that. I'd call the ability to make another person glow "superpowers". I know it is beyond the ability of us mere mortals.

But yes, people with powers are much more advanced then ordianry people. They understnad their true wishes, as well as lots and lots of other things.

It is no great feat to understand one's "true wishes". What would truly be advanced would be to understand what they could do for humanity. One of the hallmarks of intelligence is empathy.

Yet your philosofy - why aren's they doing anything for the humanity??? - , so to say, is like the one of a tipical lazy member of society. No offences, of cource.

Well I don't know about you, but I'm trying my best to do good things for humanity. Of course, I don't have superpowers, so what I can do is restricted to mundane things like studying how the world works and doing my best to preserve it. Others of these "typical lazy members" of society are doctors and researchers. Though they are apparently unable to learn to use the powers you describe, they seem to be smart, caring people who use their skills for others and share their knowledge with humanity, unlike the selfish people with "powers". No offense, of course.

Ordinary people always want someone to do everything for them. They want doctors, scientists, Super-Heors or who ever to cure all their deseases, feed them, warm them, buy them a Mercedes, eliminate all terrorists, etc.

My, but you have a low opinion of humanity. Though there are some people like you describe, I'd say they are the exception rather than the rule. Of course, a single person cannot do all things. How many diseases have you cured? Or are you expecting others to do that for you? How many terrorists have you eliminated? Are you farming that one out too?

Before you start complaing that others are lazy, take a look at what you have contributed to society. It should be more than the average person, because you have special gifts.

This was a methafore. Monkeys maybe do not kill each other for bananas. Yet some people do...

I understand that. I was merely pointing out that as metaphors go, it was a very poor one.

 

[Ashles]

I posted this on the other thread, but it should probably be here (quotes are from bratok):

quote:
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Would you, dear grown-up, give all your povers, fast cars, guns, airplanes, etc. to small, irresponsible kids?
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Well firstly we know they will have access to them anyway. Secondly kids don't doubt for a second that cars gans and airplanes exist. Thirdly I personally wouldn't give these to kids, but many people have done in the past. It is strange that no rogue gifted people decide to reveal the truth to people. Not one of them.


quote:
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Or if, for example, you would find an old Sufi book describing the technique of teleportation... you would try it and it'll work - would you make available to people?
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I would certainly give this to people. And end to food surplus in some countries and hunger in others? And end to the pollution by fossil fuels for transport? Potential for space exploration? A million positive, species enhancing uses?


quote:
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In my opinion, everybody has this powerd within them. If one can see something ( aura, future, whatsoever), everybody can learn to see it. Or sometimes this ability might just pop out without any trining...
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As always it comes down to a belief.

Anyway, if people do have these gifts, but choose not to share them or use them to bring peace to the world or warn of terrorist incidents or anything helpful at all, what is the difference between that and not having the gifts at all?

If you had a million dollars and your children were starving and you chose not to tell anyone you had the million dollars in case the kids misused it, you might as well not have the million dollars.
And your kids would be really impressed when you told that maybe you did have a million dollars, but you have decided that it is better for them if you don't prove it.


Or maybe, just maybe, these powers don't really exist. The world is complex enough without inventing things.

 

[bratok]

Okay, so maybe that person is not you, but apparently there is someone else you know who can do that. I'd call the ability to make another person glow "superpowers". I know it is beyond the ability of us mere mortals.

You missunderstood, I saw a person pump his energy to a point when his aura ( especially around his head ) started to sort of glow. Of cource, you can say that it was a holography of some kind or anything else.

What would truly be advanced would be to understand what they could do for humanity.

Same old song. All they can do for the sake of humanity in general and every human in particular is give their knowlege to those who are ready to accept it.

Of course, I understnad that you were raised and told that one should help others, otherwise he's selfish.

Once again let's look at a monkey. It wants to eat and the only banana is on a tree. Now it has to think of how to use a stick to get it off. When it wants to drink, it is forced to make up a plan of how to drink and not get eaten by a crocodile, for example. So by being faced with a problem it has to look for a solution and become wiser.

When it has become a human wise enough, it starts looking for certain kind of knowlege that oridnary human do not possess. And, if this wise human is truly ready, he will find other wise human who would give him this knowlege, that he will later pass on to others.

Yet if the original monkey would be given a heap of bananas, so that it won't have to climb a tree, it would stay a monkey...

How many diseases have you cured? Or are you expecting others to do that for you?

I'm healthy and feeling great!
Mostly because, I believe, energetic exercises.

 

[bratok]

>> Well firstly we know they will have access to them anyway.

Yes, but when they are ready.

>> Thirdly I personally wouldn't give these to kids, but many people have done in the past.

And the result usualy wasn't a good one, I assume...

>> It is strange that no rogue gifted people decide to reveal the truth to people. Not one of them.

Maybe they are a bit wiser then those who'd give gunz to kidz

Maybe some did in the middle ages, but got burned on a stake.

>> I would certainly give this to people.

And see people teleport in and out bank safes and jewelary shops

>> Anyway, if people do have these gifts, but choose not
>> to share them or use them to bring peace to the world...

Ahh... one again you want the world to be a place with no problems. This place is called heaven . Yet here, without any problems there won't be any evolution.

>> If you had a million dollars and your children were starving...

And what is a millionair would fullfill every wish or insitinct of his child? Would the child be doing anything else then eating ice cream and playing PS2 till the end of his life? That again would be degradation, don't you think?

>> Or maybe, just maybe, these powers don't really exist.

For some maybe this - thinking "none of it exists" is really the best solution.

As one wise person said - do not sell a diamond in a grocery store.

 

[Ashles]

You see this is a great closed argument:
Those who can use these powers are by your definition the ones who will never tell because they are too wise to pass on the information.
If you are the sort of person who might share the information you have inbuilt blocks that prevent you from being able to develop these abilities.
Very neat.

These people have this great ability to help society as a whole and they are wise enough to know they should not share the information, but not wise enough to teach people the wise uses of their gifts. So they just keep quiet and only use their abilities for
Chat shows
Game shows
Fairground attractions
Making things glow
Bending spoons
etc.

And what is a millionair would fullfill every wish or insitinct of his child? Would the child be doing anything else then eating ice cream and playing PS2 till the end of his life? That again would be degradation, don't you think?

If the alternative is suffering starvation and potential death then wouldn't that be preferable?

We may all nuke ourselves to death while the 'wise' people sit around.

 

[bratok]

>> These people have this great ability to help society as a
>> whole and they are wise enough to know they should not
>> share the information.

Ok, for the last time just for you

- No one can truly help any person on this earth other then he himself.
- If wise people would start sovling your problems you would slowly degradate.
- If a wise people would give their knowlege to people who are not ready for it ( too irresponsible, too misled by their instincts ) it would only lead to chaos and more suffering.
- They can only help by giving their knowlege to a person ( who is already wise enough to receive it ) to use it for his own personal evolution, solving his problems and later pass it to those, whom he believes are ready for it.
- By being faced with problems, people are forced to solve them and become wiser with it ( evolutionate ).

I hope that's understandable for you

So, hopefully, one day they all would be ready for the knowlegde. Then it would be made public.
( just my guess )...

>> So they just keep quiet and only use their abilities for...

I don't think this ones, who participate on game shows, do really have any serios powers .

>> We may all nuke ourselves to death while the 'wise' people sit around....

My personal believe is that they do look after us, simple people, a bit and won't let us nuke ourself... Remamber the Caribean crises... maybe everything turned out good by itself, maybe some Dervish planted a "My God! WTF am I doing?" thought into Khruschov's head... We'll never know that.

 

[Rob Lister]

We may all nuke ourselves to death while the 'wise' people sit around....

glowing.

 

[Ashles]

No one can truly help any person on this earth other then he himself.
- If wise people would start sovling your problems you would slowly degradate.
- If a wise people would give their knowlege to people who are not ready for it ( too irresponsible, too misled by their instincts ) it would only lead to chaos and more suffering.
- They can only help by giving their knowlege to a person ( who is already wise enough to receive it ) to use it for his own personal evolution, solving his problems and later pass it to those, whom he believes are ready for it.
- By being faced with problems, people are forced to solve them and become wiser with it ( evolutionate ).

No I UNDERSTAND what you are CLAIMING (maybe it's you that might need the cute little mallet smilie), but you do not seem to grasp that this is entirely your belief. There is no evidence for this and it defies logic, everyday experience and basic human nature.

You are displaying a classic "I would love to believe this nice thought is true so I will choose to believe it" theory.

And yes, maybe the Cuban missile crisis was averted by the wise people. Maybe it was my Mum's lucky cutlery that averted it.

Maybe antelopes secretly rule everything - this is equally likely as your theory.

 

[bratok]

>>> ...but you do not seem to grasp that this is entirely your belief. There is no evidence for this and...

But of course, you have your own head use and determine weather

1. My theory is right
Then all I could say would be "very well, I fully agree with your opinion".

2. Both me and my theory need professional help
In that case all I could answer would also be "very well, I fully agree with your opinion".

>> ...it defies logic, everyday experience and basic human nature.

Don't see any conflicts between the "theory" and logic, everyday experience and basic human nature.

Or if that was about them "not helping". Helping, love, sharing I believe is within the true human nature, but we were raised and taught that helping means solveing someone's else problems. But that, as I already said is not real helping.

As well as most people are suffering not because something "bad" has happened. It was just an event, but because they take this event as "bad".

 

[Ashles]

Defies logic:
There is no reason at all to imagine this theory is correct - no evidence, no observable facts that would be different from my Antelope analogy.

Everyday experience:
It doesn't look to me like any wise people are running the world or anyone has any supernatural ability.

Basic human nature:
Humans like to compete, show off and help each other. They like to share information and are curious. Humans make good and bad judgements.

 

[bratok]

Defies logic:
There is no reason at all to imagine this theory is correct - no evidence, no observable facts that would be different from my Antelope analogy.

Everyday experience:
It doesn't look to me like any wise people are running the world or anyone has any supernatural ability.

If I'de be sitting at home all time I also would say that "it doesn't look to me that there are girafs and elephants in Africa. Have you been looking?

And I didn't say that they are running it. They might interact with some keypoints. But mostly there are other, far not Enlighted, structures that run the world of simple people...

Basic human nature:
Humans like to compete, show off and help each other. They like to share information and are curious. Humans make good and bad judgements.

To compete and show off isn't of true human nature. Rather also some kind of a "block" - what others would think of you, they have to respect you, etc.

Make judgements - Also not a true nature. You make judgements because of looking from a certain angle, most likely because someone told you to. I.e. this is good, this is bad. While wise people can look from what ever angle they want. So that's why they usualy answer "I fully agree with you". and Good Luck!

edit:
And a little story. Two man had an argument.
One of them went to a Sufi Master and told what happened, that is wasn't his fault, that the other had offended him.

"You are right!" the Master answered and this man left proudly.

The second man walked in and told his blah... blah... blah... .

"You are right!" the Master answered and this man also left proudly.

"But they both can not be right at the same time!" Master's pupil insisted.

"You know, you are quite right!" once again answered the Master.

 

[Tricky]

You missunderstood, I saw a person pump his energy to a point when his aura ( especially around his head ) started to sort of glow. Of cource, you can say that it was a holography of some kind or anything else.

I don't know what it was, since I did not witness it. It could be the "aura" as you claim. All I'm saying is see if you can get him to do it for observers. It could be worth a million US dollars to him.

Same old song. All they can do for the sake of humanity in general and every human in particular is give their knowlege to those who are ready to accept it.

And that is all I am asking you to do. Give your knowledge to those who are ready to accept it. I am ready. In fact, I am downright eager. Humanity could definately use something like this, and I truly hope that this one is real. Please don't let me down.

Of course, I understnad that you were raised and told that one should help others, otherwise he's selfish.

Were you raised to let others suffer even when you could easily help them? Were you forbidden to go to school? Did your parents say, "Let him learn to read on his own. If we teach him, it will just make him soft." That is ridiculous. Teaching is the essence of civilization.

Once again let's look at a monkey. It wants to eat and the only banana is on a tree. Now it has to think of how to use a stick to get it off. When it wants to drink, it is forced to make up a plan of how to drink and not get eaten by a crocodile, for example. So by being faced with a problem it has to look for a solution and become wiser.

Let me tell you something about that monkey situation that you keep mentioning. This has actually been studied. A smart monkey will learn how to use a stick or blocks to reach food, and the other monkeys in his group learn from him. In the end, his whole group benefits. Most monkeys are social animals and they do not see any benefit to letting their fellow group members starve. They appear to have more compassion than some humans. Some humans would let their whole group (however you define it) suffer rather than teach them something they could definately use. There's a word for those sorts of people. Sociopaths.

When it has become a human wise enough, it starts looking for certain kind of knowlege that oridnary human do not possess. And, if this wise human is truly ready, he will find other wise human who would give him this knowlege, that he will later pass on to others.

There are teachers who operate this way. They look for someone who will parrot back exactly what they say and will choose only these devoted followers to impart their knowledge to. These are not good teachers. They are power-hungry, jealous people.

A good teacher puts his knowledge out there for everyone to see and then observes who can learn.

Yet if the original monkey would be given a heap of bananas, so that it won't have to climb a tree, it would stay a monkey...

But you are not giving away "bananas", you are giving the lessons for "finding bananas". By doing so, the monkey learns the value of these kinds of skills. He may even improve upon them.

I'm healthy and feeling great!
Mostly because, I believe, energetic exercises.

I'm very glad for you. However, that wasn't the question. The question was, (essentially) do you let other people learn things for you, like curing diseases, or do you do it all yourself. I ask this because you seemed to be saying that those who don't do everything for themselves are lazy.

 

[Jyera]

Very interesting story by Bratok about the Sufi master's response.

Here's another one ...
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A neighbor came to Nasrudin, asking to borrow his donkey. "It is out on loan," the teacher replied. At that moment, the donkey brayed loudly inside the stable. "But I can hear it bray, over there." "Whom do you believe," asked Nasrudin, "me or a donkey?"
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In both stories, there is attempt to be logical and critical in thinking. In the Donkey story there is even attempt to give evidence. ("I can hear it bray")

In both cases, there is tendency for people to assert their view (that they are right)
But in both cases, logical assertion didn't help.

Perhaps Primarily because someone else has the power/authority.
- The Sufi Master had the person authority as a person of respect. Thus he is allowed to appear to behave illogically infront of the pupils.
- Nasrudin is the teacher(guru=>figure of authority) and the owner to the donkey. So he can decide if he will lend his donkey or not. He need not be bind by logical arguements, or evidence, or facts.

Similar stories happens everyday in the world.
(I have no evidence but is highly confident)

Question :
Focusing on ... "But in both cases, logical assertion didn't help."
What is the action-oriented advise to the people who are in the role of the "pupil" and the "neighbour"?

There is need for the people who support critical/logical/skeptical thinking to answer this question. For the story seems to imply that being CLS-cal isn't as useful as having authority.

There is need for the people who are wise, or who promote seeking wisdom to answer this question. It is easy to look wise and say wise things, but what the world of common people need is "what to do?" . Especially when they are facing conflicting situation like that of the two stories.

Note:: Common people may not unwise or stupid, they just form a larger section of the population.

 

[Hand Bent Spoon]

So it all boils down to:

"Why don't they demonstrate their abilities?"

"Because they are too wise to do that."

Given no further evidence, we have two possibilities:

1. They have these abilities but are too wise to demonstrate them and maintain them in perfect secrecy.

or

2. They don't actually have any abilities to demonstrate.

Occam's razor cuts away the first, and leaves us with only the second as having any real probability of being true.

 

[bratok]

>> Very interesting story by Bratok about the Sufi master's response.
>> Here's another one ...

By that story I tried to show that a person advanced enough can look at a problem from different angles.

For example, some would come to you and say that Joe did lots of good things, therefor he is a good person. I assume you would agree with him.
Then someone else might come to you and say that Joe did lots of bad, terrible things that make him a monster. Wouldn't you agree with him too?

As for Nasreddin stories, they, as well as Omar Khayam, for example, are Sufi stories that are FAR above our level of understanding.

>> There are teachers who operate this way.
>> They look for someone who will parrot back exactly what they say...

In no way. This knowledge is practical, unlike the knowledge we get in schools, it can not be parroted.

>> But you are not giving away "bananas", you are giving the lessons for "finding bananas".
>> By doing so, the monkey learns the value of these kinds of skills. He may even improve upon them.

While this knowledge of how to get "bananas" ( get healthy and solve all your everyday problems ) is publicly available!
This is also the string one can pull to get to some higher knowledge.

Yet the problem is that most people are not looking for it, they are not interested in it. If you want it, please take it!

The books I know are in Russian, so use a translator or look for an English analogue ( if any ).

Translator http://www.worldlingo.com/products_services/worldlingo_translator.html

http://www.deir.lv/HTML/Books_All/Book1.htm
First of the DEIR books, about disconnecting from the society, starting to work with your energy and ethercal body.

http://www.universalinternetlibrary.ru/book/norbekov/ogl.shtml
"Experience of a fool or a key to enlightment" a book about how people get sick and why they stay sick, even having all possible tools to get healthy + exercises for correcting vision.

http://www.universalinternetlibrary.ru/book/norbekov4/ogl.shtml
"Where Kuzka's mother winters or how to get a free million of solutions"
A book for those who want to awake. About simple "blind", "sleeping" people, about "seeing" people.

http://www.universalinternetlibrary.ru/book/norbekov1/ogl.shtml
A book with practical energetic exercises of how to get and stay healthy.

So let me ask you a question? If there is publicly available knowledge about how one can get and stay healthy ( that works ), then why there still are sick people?
Because they are not yet ready to it, they won't accept it. When they will be ready, they will.
For example, I got healthy, few more people I know also did... yet lots of people I know are still sick and bragging about how they want to be he-a-l-thy... how poor they are... and, in the same time, refusing to take their life in their own hands, making up excuses that it is not possible... that other people who got healthy are lying to them or, in the best case, it was just a coincident.


So Good Luck!

 

[Zep]

Bratok, do you think that your claims of "energy" and so on are testable? Can you really prove them to someone who doesn't believe you? If so, how would you do that? What would be your method of proof?