Secularists have no ethics, any refutations?

[Paradox74]

I have heard the argument that nonbelievers (atheists in particular) have no morality because they do not believe that god watches over them, or something like that. (Yes, there ARE the atrocities in the Old Testament and whatnot, but that is a bit of an ad hominem tu quoque fallacy).

Are there any articles or books out there that refute this kind of argument?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Lowpro]

A.C. Grayling's book "The Good Book" is a humanitarian book. In general any humanism book tends to gravitate towards secular ethics.

 

[lionking]

Sam Harris deals with this issue in "the Moral Landscape".

 

[sadhatter]

I don't think that it is so much an issue of a specific book, as plainly obvious facts.

If the statement that secularists have no morality is true, then it should be obvious. Criminals should have a large majority of atheists, but as it turns out, ( at least in north america, maybe the stats are different elsewhere.) the opposite is true. Not that there are no atheists who commit crimes, but that the overwhelming majority of those committing crimes, is the same overwhelming majority that are not committing crimes. Religious folk.

I find when this argument is used, the standard tactic, once this is brought up, is that the person claiming it is going to start quoting bits of their holy book that are not necessarily moral ( merely instructions in said book, versus things that help, benefit, and generally keep society from crumbling. ) , gay marriage, worshiping god, etc.

Essentially they confuse what is moral with what is written in their book. And while their book may have some morality in it, not every instruction, story or parable within is what we would consider morality.

In short, they are messing about with the word morality.

 

[AdMan]

A lot has been said on this topic, but a recent op-ed piece in the Washington Post came to mind:

Those who don’t believe in God are widely considered to be immoral, wicked and angry. They can’t join the Boy Scouts. Atheist soldiers are rated potentially deficient when they do not score as sufficiently “spiritual” in military psychological evaluations. Surveys find that most Americans refuse or are reluctant to marry or vote for nontheists; in other words, nonbelievers are one minority still commonly denied in practical terms the right to assume office despite the constitutional ban on religious tests.

Rarely denounced by the mainstream, this stunning anti-atheist discrimination is egged on by Christian conservatives who stridently — and uncivilly — declare that the lack of godly faith is detrimental to society, rendering nonbelievers intrinsically suspect and second-class citizens.

Is this knee-jerk dislike of atheists warranted? Not even close.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...slike-atheists/2011/02/18/AFqgnwGF_story.html

 

[Dinwar]

Are there any articles or books out there that refute this kind of argument?

Atlas Shrugged. Love it or hate it, Objectivism is an atheistic philosophy and includes a very clear ethical component. Thus the argument that atheists necessarily discard morality is demonstrably wrong.

Or, if you hate Rand, check out Marx. Same thing--obviously an atheistic viewpoint, and just as obviously had a very clear moral code.

Dawkins also deals with this in The God Delusion and The Greatest Show on Earth (tangentially in the latter book).

 

[Lowpro]

Coming from the mouth(s) of secularists:

http://richarddawkins.net/videos/623139-who-says-science-has-nothing-to-say-about-morality

 

[Resume]

Coming from the mouth(s) of secularists:

http://richarddawkins.net/videos/623139-who-says-science-has-nothing-to-say-about-morality

Thanks for this link. Looks to be a good Friday night watch, perhaps with a beer or three.

 

[Wowbagger]

Also read Good without God, by Greg Epstein, the Humanist chaplain at Harvard. Very well written book all about human morality and dignity. Religious leaders rarely turn out books this well thought-out, dignified, and defended.

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

I have heard the argument that nonbelievers (atheists in particular) have no morality because they do not believe that god watches over them, or something like that. (Yes, there ARE the atrocities in the Old Testament and whatnot, but that is a bit of an ad hominem tu quoque fallacy).

Are there any articles or books out there that refute this kind of argument?

Thanks in advance.

I wonder why you would need an article or a book to refute a statement that is obviously wrong. Use the evidence of your own eyes; there are plenty non-believers who exhibit morality.

 

[Rasmus]

I have heard the argument that nonbelievers (atheists in particular) have no morality because they do not believe that god watches over them, or something like that. (Yes, there ARE the atrocities in the Old Testament and whatnot, but that is a bit of an ad hominem tu quoque fallacy).

Are there any articles or books out there that refute this kind of argument?

Thanks in advance.

Why refute it?

If someone makes the claim, just agree, punch them hard and break their nose. I can't see why you wouldn't ...

 

[catsmate]

I have heard the argument that nonbelievers (atheists in particular) have no morality because they do not believe that god watches over them, or something like that. (Yes, there ARE the atrocities in the Old Testament and whatnot, but that is a bit of an ad hominem tu quoque fallacy).

Are there any articles or books out there that refute this kind of argument?

Thanks in advance.

The generally superior moral behavior of those not suffering from religion? For example the under representation of atheists amongst those who comit violent crimes.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Atlas Shrugged. Love it or hate it, Objectivism is an atheistic philosophy and includes a very clear ethical component. Thus the argument that atheists necessarily discard morality is demonstrably wrong.

Ugh, no. Objectivism does not offer a valid moral framework. It offers baseless, often incoherent assertions on what morality is. A list of Do and Do Not isn't really that far removed from religion.

 

[Craig4]

Ugh, no. Objectivism does not offer a valid moral framework. It offers baseless, often incoherent assertions on what morality is. A list of Do and Do Not isn't really that far removed from religion.

Rand ignored the elephant in the room which is the question of whether or not society has a responsibility to those unable to help themselves. She also fails to make the link between the immorality of the villains (socialists and such) and their beliefs. She has characters who she doesn't agree with do bad things but fails to establish that their beliefs lead them to their immorality.

 

[Mister Agenda]

Theism has no ethics either. There are no ethics that follow from mere theism. Religions and philosophies have ethics. Theism and atheism aren't religions or philosophies. They're opinions on a single topic. The question is a non-starter in the first place, because it isn't comparing atheism and theism; it's comparing atheism and Abrahamic religions, so it's apples and origins. It would be legitimate to compare the ethical systems of humanism and Judaism; but not atheism and Islam.

The base of the misunderstanding of the ethics of atheists is that atheists are all lumped together as if they are a homogenous group, while theists are properly sorted into their various religions. We're not all the same.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I have heard the argument that believers (Christians in particular) have no morality because they believe that whatever they do, they only need to believe in Jesus and ask god to forgive them, or something like that. (Yes, there ARE the atrocities in the Old Testament and whatnot, and bad behavior is forgiven over and over.)

Are there any articles or books out there that refute this kind of argument?

Thanks in advance.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I have heard the argument that nonbelievers (atheists in particular) have no morality because they do not believe that god watches over them, or something like that. (Yes, there ARE the atrocities in the Old Testament and whatnot, but that is a bit of an ad hominem tu quoque fallacy).

Are there any articles or books out there that refute this kind of argument?

Thanks in advance.

I know in my case it's true.

 

[leonAzul]

I have heard the argument that believers (Christians in particular) have no morality because they believe that whatever they do, they only need to believe in Jesus and ask god to forgive them, or something like that. (Yes, there ARE the atrocities in the Old Testament and whatnot, and bad behavior is forgiven over and over.)

Are there any articles or books out there that refute this kind of argument?

Thanks in advance.

If Jesus paid for my sins, I see no reason why I shouldn't get my money's worth.

 

[qayak]

Are there any articles or books out there that refute this kind of argument?

Everyday Ethics by Joshua Halberstam.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

If Jesus paid for my sins, I see no reason why I shouldn't get my money's worth.