Science historian cracks the 'Plato code'

[Complexity]

Mountain out of a molehill. The claims are funny.

http://www.manchester.ac.uk/aboutus/news/display/?id=5894

From the beginning of the article:

A science historian at The University of Manchester has cracked “The Plato Code” – the long disputed secret messages hidden in the great philosopher’s writings.

Plato was the Einstein of Greece’s Golden Age and his work founded Western culture and science. Dr Jay Kennedy’s findings are set to revolutionise the history of the origins of Western thought.

Dr Kennedy, whose findings are published in the leading US journal Apeiron, reveals that Plato used a regular pattern of symbols, inherited from the ancient followers of Pythagoras, to give his books a musical structure. A century earlier, Pythagoras had declared that the planets and stars made an inaudible music, a ‘harmony of the spheres’. Plato imitated this hidden music in his books.

The hidden codes show that Plato anticipated the Scientific Revolution 2,000 years before Isaac Newton, discovering its most important idea – the book of nature is written in the language of mathematics. The decoded messages also open up a surprising way to unite science and religion. The awe and beauty we feel in nature, Plato says, shows that it is divine; discovering the scientific order of nature is getting closer to God. This could transform today’s culture wars between science and religion.

 

[excaza]

The decoded messages also open up a surprising way to unite science and religion. The awe and beauty we feel in nature, Plato says, shows that it is divine; discovering the scientific order of nature is getting closer to God. This could transform today’s culture wars between science and religion.

That's quite a leap

I'm of the opinion that you can probably find some sort of pattern in anything if you try hard enough.

here's a link for those who don't want to google, I'm going to give a read when I have to take a break from MATLAB coding.
http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/staff/jay.kennedy/Kennedy_Apeiron_proofs.pdf

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

The awe and beauty we feel in nature, Plato says, shows that it is divine; discovering the scientific order of nature is getting closer to God. This could transform today’s culture wars between science and religion.

I read this a couple of days ago, and really don't get these lines. Let's just assume that this guy is right, and Plato really did have this secret code, and he cracked it, and it really does say that "discovering the scientific order of nature is getting closer to God".

So?

It may turn out that Plato was the first one to come up with the idea, but it's not like the idea was unknown before now. That idea already exists within the context of "today's culture wars". How is learning that it might be an older idea than previously thought change anything?

 

[excaza]

I just skimmed the paper, and I see absolutely nothing that substantiates the last paragraph of the original post. Unless I'm completely missing something, I don't see any mention of the Scientific Revolution or religion at all.

 

[Ryokan]

Are there any historic great minds left now that has not hidden secret messages in code in their writings? Anyone?

 

[Simon39759]

Are there any historic great minds left now that has not hidden secret messages in code in their writings? Anyone?

Dr. Seuss?

 

[Simon39759]

I read this a couple of days ago, and really don't get these lines. Let's just assume that this guy is right, and Plato really did have this secret code, and he cracked it, and it really does say that "discovering the scientific order of nature is getting closer to God".

So?

It may turn out that Plato was the first one to come up with the idea, but it's not like the idea was unknown before now. That idea already exists within the context of "today's culture wars". How is learning that it might be an older idea than previously thought change anything?

Both of these articles mention, 'finding the Gospels'. So if they indeed contained direct reference to Jesus' life, considering they predate it by 4 centuries, that would indeed be the proof of something prophetic and a strong indication of something supernatural...
Then again, I am not quite sure what the cades are actually supposed to reveal.
And, of course, if this code is similar to the so called 'Bible codes', there is the small matter that such codes can be found in any large text and are meaningless...

 

[Complexity]

Both of these articles mention, 'finding the Gospels'. So if they indeed contained direct reference to Jesus' life, considering they predate it by 4 centuries, that would indeed be the proof of something prophetic and a strong indication of something supernatural...
Then again, I am not quite sure what the cades are actually supposed to reveal.
And, of course, if this code is similar to the so called 'Bible codes', there is the small matter that such codes can be found in any large text and are meaningless...

I vote for 'meaningless'. If the guy is just another xian nut tryin to support his fairytale, he deserves nothing but oblivion.

 

[Paul2]

This idea about Plato finally got criticized quite nicely by the music theorists in the smt-talk email list, supposedly archived at http://societymusictheory.org/journals/lists but the link at the bottom of the page isn't working.

Anyway, the critique I saw was a fine example of skeptical thinking, basically starting with the idea that even if Plato divided his writings into twelve sections, why do those sections correspond to the twelve notes of the musical scale as claimed, especially when the twelve notes were not defined as the chromatic scale in Plato's time (I think I got that right).

 

[jwalker1960]

I find the whole idea of "codes" of any kind to be dubious and ripe for very big doses of skepticism. While it is true that many people have written in code for one reason or another since writing was invented, I doubt there are many instances of large bodies of work that were publicly available being written in code throughout as Dr Kennedy claims.

I read the article in question and there were red flags a-flyin' right from the git-go. He says:

"...but basically I cracked the code. I have shown rigorously that the books do contain codes and symbols and that unraveling them reveals the hidden philosophy of Plato.

This is a true discovery, not simply reinterpretation.”

First off, he keeps highlight "his" discovery and "his" work which right away makes me think that he is trying to promote himself rather than his research.

Also, this sounds eerily similar to claims made by people who have claimed to break various bible codes over the years. While this similarity doesn't by any means rule out the possibility of his research being right, it should be cause for a very rigorous review of his research by qualified scholars.

 

[Harpyja]

What sort of "musical code?"

Dr Kennedy spent five years studying Plato’s writing and found that in his best-known work the Republic he placed clusters of words related to music after each twelfth of the text – at one-twelfth, two-twelfths, etc. This regular pattern represented the twelve notes of a Greek musical scale. Some notes were harmonic, others dissonant. At the locations of the harmonic notes he described sounds associated with love or laughter, while the locations of dissonant notes were marked with screeching sounds or war or death. This musical code was key to cracking Plato’s entire symbolic system.

Dr Kennedy, a researcher in the Centre for the History of Science, Technology and Medicine, says: “As we read his books, our emotions follow the ups and downs of a musical scale. Plato plays his readers like musical instruments.”

Fascinating, but how are love, war, or death music-related?

 

[Kopji]

Dr Kennedy, whose findings are published in the leading US journal Apeiron,

Sure. Which Aperion?
This one?

APEIRON publishes high-quality research papers in the area of ancient Greek and Roman philosophy and science. The journal is interdisciplinary; submissions are expected to meet appropriate standards both of classical scholarship and of philosophical insight. APEIRON welcomes submissions in any aspect of ancient philosophy and science up to the end of the classical period, roughly the seventh century CE.
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/depts/philosophy/resources/Apeiron.php

or this one?

Apeiron is the name of a scientific journal and publisher of books on studies in infinite nature. It is a quarterly international publication started in 1987. Apeiron publishes theoretical and experimental work in a wide variety of fields within physics, but is especially noted for publishing alternative theories of cosmology, relativity and quantum mechanics.
http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/apeiron-journal-/references.html

I'm gonna make a wild guess and say the second one.

 

[calebprime]

This idea about Plato finally got criticized quite nicely by the music theorists in the smt-talk email list, supposedly archived at http://societymusictheory.org/journals/lists but the link at the bottom of the page isn't working.

Anyway, the critique I saw was a fine example of skeptical thinking, basically starting with the idea that even if Plato divided his writings into twelve sections, why do those sections correspond to the twelve notes of the musical scale as claimed, especially when the twelve notes were not defined as the chromatic scale in Plato's time (I think I got that right).

What you wrote sounds right. I have expertise in music theory and some expertise in tuning theory, but not especially in tuning history. However, it's commonly said that 12-tone equal temperament wasn't settled on until well after Bach, although it was recognized as one of several theoretically possible tunings as early as the late 16th century.

I'd be very surprised if ancient Greeks like Plato were thinking in terms of 12 tones at all.

 

[Nova Land]

Sure. Which Aperion?

This one? ... or this one?

I'm gonna make a wild guess and say the second one.

Then I think you'd be guessing wrong.

Here's what Jay Kennedy posted on his website, in an item titled Apeiron article on Plato:

An article `Plato’s Forms, Pythagorean Mathematics, and Stichometry’ will appear in the next issue of Apeiron: a journal for ancient philosophy and science.

Googling on that title, one finds that Apeiron: A Journal for Ancient Philosophy and Science is the one you mentioned first -- the one which self-describes itself as a publisher of "high-quality research papers in the area of ancient Greek and Roman philosophy and science. The journal is interdisciplinary; submissions are expected to meet appropriate standards both of classical scholarship and of philosophical insight".

Just to be sure that the two journals didn't somehow use the same subtitle (unlikely as that seems) I checked. Here's the website for the other Apeiron. Looks completely different from the U of Texas site.



Edited to add: Oh, phooey! I knew there was something I meant to do before I posted that. I guess it's too late to ask if you'd like to bet on which journal Kennedy's article is going to appear in?

 

[bozman]

Oh, you mean a SCIENTIST finally cracked this long standing mystery?

HA! HA! In your face, religion!!! USA! USA! USA!

 

[tsig]

Oh, you mean a SCIENTIST finally cracked this long standing mystery?

HA! HA! In your face, religion!!! USA! USA! USA!

Plato had code embedded.

DNA! DNA! DNA!

 

[Father Dagon]

Didn't Leo Strauss build a (secret) career on secret messages? (Not that you can't have secret messages in texts. The Prince is said to be a satire.)

 

[lionking]

I can only hope Complexity is lurking. Come back, you are sadly missed.

 

[Beerina]

Are there any historic great minds left now that has not hidden secret messages in code in their writings? Anyone?

Dr. Seuss?

Green Eggs And Ham was prep-work readying kids to not be afraid of oral sex. Looking about at today's kids on the Intertubes, mission accomplished.