Schizophrenia and Nutrition!

digital goldfish

Thinker
D
Joined
Jan 8, 2004
Messages
154
Schizophrenia and Nutrition - please help!

Hey all

This is a very serious request. My mother has suffered from schizophrenia for the last 7 years, and my uncle has onw suggested she go to a clinic in London that specialises in the treatmentof mental illness through 'optimum nutrition' - The Brain Bio Centre. It's about £1200, and my mum has just mentioned it to me. My gut is that it's quackery, but i can't be sure. I would very much appreciate some objectivity and intelligence around this.

the cached page is http://216.239.41.104/search?hl=en&...Aauzo2WMJ:www.mentalhealthproject.com/bbc.asp

Biochemical screening through blood, urine and hair samples, may include:

Food intolerances using quantitative ELISA IgG analysis
Mineral imbalances using hair mineral analysis
Pyroluria using urinary reagent analysis
Neurotransmitter imbalances using blood platelet determinations of serotonin, dopamine, adrenalin, noradrenalin, histamine and acetylcholine
Homocysteine imbalance using blood plasma
Further tests to investigate specific issues may also be recommended where appropriate.
Psychometric screening involves straightforward questionnaires, completed at the first consultation in some cases.
Click to expand...

She is currently on amilsulpride. Does any of this have a scientific basis or is it quackery?
 
A friend who is bipolar has received strict dietary instructions from her neurologist. Beef is off the list. Where possible non-organic meats are off the list. Things like that. She does seem to be susceptible to a number of dietary sensitivities. So, I could see where diet could be a factor (realizing that bipolar and schizophrenia are not the same). You might also be able to figure out from researching the 'net whether there are certain diets that might help her more than others and try those first, if you don't want to plunk down that much change for results that may not be guaranteed.
 
First, a close member of my family has suffered from schitzo for over 30 years. The only thing that has helped (and has helped a lot,) is the pharmaceutical meds.
As far as I can tell, he runs a Scientology recruitment "Institute."
http://www.drogenentzug-bei-narconon.de/html/ernahrung.html
Scientologists do not believe in standard medicine, especially mental health care. The care will likely involve a lot of talk, questionable dietary supplements, and a conversion to Scientology. Still sound good?
I hope your mother only has mild schitzo., as my relative has. It is far better to hire a house cleaner or other help to assist her in her life than to throw it away on a quack.
 
Neurotransmitters seem to be key in most cases of mental illness.

Chocolate seems to have an effect on neurotransmitter release.

It's possible other foods might. It's also possible that foods, when broken down can react in certain ways in the body.

But that's a very loose, layman correlation.

I'd prefer some clinical trials on this first though, no matter how plausible it seems.
 
&#$^#($#**!!

It's all freakin quackery. My mom has schizophrenia and diet has no effect whatsoever reducing the symptoms. It's brain chemicals we're talking about here, and if food had that much of an effect we'd all be suffering from Parkinson's (the opposite of schizophrenia in that it is having not enough dopamine receptors).

Scientologists have no clue about mental illness. Their whole philosophy on it is so whacky you might as well be saying the moon is made of green cheese in the same breath as all their nonsense.

For that price she should get something to reduce stress-like the maid Quasi suggested.

I can't stand how those crooks charge so much to give nothing of value back to the person getting fleeced. If anything it would increase stress and aggravate the condition. Lack of money for essentials is no good for anybody's stress level.

Schizophrenic brains tend to have larger lateral ventricles and a smaller volume of tissue in the left temporal lobe in comparison to healthy brains. The chemical nature of a schizophrenic brain is also different in the manner the brain handles dopamine, a neurotransmitter...

When drugs block dopamine receptors in the basal ganglia, the symptoms of schizophrenia are reduced...

Controlling dopamine and dopamine receptors is essential for the treatment of schizophrenia. Because schizophrenia is hereditary, it is important to see progress for the next generation. (Brown 1994) In the future there will be more sophisticated drugs that do not merely suppress symptoms, but also allow for normal cognitive functioning. Although schizophrenics may never be normal, their lives can still be made more tolerable.
Click to expand...
http://wwwchem.csustan.edu/chem44x0/SJBR/Mann.htm
The drugs for schizophrenia are non-toxic and non-addictive. They also have less side effects than they used to when they first came out. Health Insurance can help cover the cost.

It's safe, effective, and proven to work when the person gets the right dose for them. It's worth it to work with the doctor.

Skip the quackery. Don't reward liars with money. Don't replace medication with ridiculous unproven whacky ideas.
 
I'm sorry about your mother.

Mental illness is distressing for both the sufferers and the people who love them. For some reason (could it be because it's really, really complicated ?) it's really hard to "cure".

If you're at the end of your tether, you're willing to do almost anything to get a cure no matter how ridiculous it seems. The assessment of some mental illnesses is, to a large degree, subjective "well he/she/I seem(s) better" and if, say in the case of bipolar disorders, the patient genuinely believes that the treatment (any treatment) is effective it may help to quell some of the symptoms. Of course the root cause of the problem won't be tackled at all.

From what I understand, many such disorders have an underlying chemical cause onto which can be layered various environmental factors (physical health, stress etc. etc.). The scientologist will be doing nothing about the former.
 
Quasi said:
First, a close member of my family has suffered from schitzo for over 30 years. The only thing that has helped (and has helped a lot,) is the pharmaceutical meds.
As far as I can tell, he runs a Scientology recruitment "Institute."
http://www.drogenentzug-bei-narconon.de/html/ernahrung.html
Scientologists do not believe in standard medicine, especially mental health care. The care will likely involve a lot of talk, questionable dietary supplements, and a conversion to Scientology. Still sound good?
I hope your mother only has mild schitzo., as my relative has. It is far better to hire a house cleaner or other help to assist her in her life than to throw it away on a quack.
Click to expand...

Where does it say on that page that he's a scientologist?
 
This seems to be the article on the basis of which my uncle decided to give these guys a call.

http://moodfoods.com/foodmood/

If i'd read that, i'd consider it too.. The studies referred to in the article can be found on pubmed.. I'm still really really skeptical though.
 
digital goldfish said:
Where does it say on that page that he's a scientologist?
Click to expand...
Nowhere, that's the sneaky part. However the Association for better Living and Education is a Scientology organization and the Narconon method is comes from Scientology.

See http://www.theta.com/goodman/able.htm.

I just tried to see what that 'theta.com' website was by deleting the last part of that url and got redirected directly to the Scientology website.
 
Food intolerances using quantitative ELISA IgG analysis
Mineral imbalances using hair mineral analysis
Click to expand...
I do know this bit is BS quackery, particularly the concept that IgG analysis has anything to offer in the investigation of "intolerancies".

But the Scientology connection sounds like more than enough reason to run a mile from this.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
I do know this bit is BS quackery, particularly the concept that IgG analysis has anything to offer in the investigation of "intolerancies".

But the Scientology connection sounds like more than enough reason to run a mile from this.

Rolfe.
Click to expand...

I agreee the scientology connection is a major problem. However, i can find only one page that links Holford with scientology through Narconon.. THe narconon watch web page lists many other people as supporters, but not him, so while i remain skeptical, i don't want to jump to too many conclusions based on the text from a single web page. He is afterall, as i keep reading 'Europe's most respected nutritionist'
 
Well, if you're not sure enough about the Scientology connection, then I redouble my advice to avoid like the plague anyone who offers to measure IgG and tell you about food intolerancies.

Hair analysis is another well-known quack investigation.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
Well, if you're not sure enough about the Scientology connection, then I redouble my advice to avoid like the plague anyone who offers to measure IgG and tell you about food intolerancies.

Hair analysis is another well-known quack investigation.

Rolfe.
Click to expand...

I dont' suppose you can point me in the direction of anyone that can back that up, can you? I tried the usual resorces, but got nowhere. If i can show that these 'treatments' are useless then i might get some of the way.

The other thing that concerned me is that a lot of the tests are done at home, and then sent off. Surely the samples; blood,urine,hair would degrade in transport, or is this not an issue?

Personally, i think she'd be better to see a dietician and get a maid. I don't know if she's spoken to her Dr about any of this, and i don't knwo if she is expected to come off the pill over this time. If she is, then i have serious reservations..
 
well, i've just spoken to a Schizophrenia charity, and they told me that they defintiely do not endorse Patrick Holford and his methods, and that the money would be much better spent on a dietician! They said his methods had no basis in science, and they would mention them if asked, but never advise them.
 
digital goldfish said:
I dont' suppose you can point me in the direction of anyone that can back that up, can you? I tried the usual resorces, but got nowhere. If i can show that these 'treatments' are useless then i might get some of the way.
Click to expand...
I haven't found anything much on the Internet about the bogosity of the IgG tests. It's well-known in the medical profession that they're a scam - to investigate allergies you need a specific IgE assay, which is a lot more tricky. The idea that IgG identifies ill-defined "intolerancies" is pretty quacky. I did have a pesonal correspondence with an allergy specialist in Dundee after he was quoted in a Sunday newspaper article about the scam, and he was pretty scathing about it all.

Hair analysis is a widespread quack idea in veterinary medicine. I've heard it debunked regularly in veterinary circles. I could ask to see if anyone knows of a useful reference. There are a few things which can usefully be measured in hair I believe (evidence of arsenic poisoning?), but the stuff these guys say they can tell - well, if only it was that easy!

I have no idea about the actual treatments, though it sounds very suspect, I'm really concentrating on the testing procedures here, because I know these are quackery.

Rolfe.
 
Turns out my Girlfriend knows some really smart people who have been on the nutrition and the dietician side of the fence, so hopefully they'll be able to offer some sound scientific advice.. (my understanding is that dieticians are regulated and scientifically trained, whereas nutritionists aren't specifically regulated, and only have basic knowledge..)
 
If you have a bad diet then good nutrition will offer some improvements.

If you have an adequate diet already then how would any changes benefit anyone with any disorder or no disorder?

That's what I'd like to know, and why I say it's absurd to think it could help one iota with schizophrenia.
 
digital goldfish said:
Turns out my Girlfriend knows some really smart people who have been on the nutrition and the dietician side of the fence, so hopefully they'll be able to offer some sound scientific advice.. (my understanding is that dieticians are regulated and scientifically trained, whereas nutritionists aren't specifically regulated, and only have basic knowledge..)
Click to expand...

That's true of people holding a Registered Dietician credential.

More info: http://www.nutrisci.wisc.edu/undergrad_ns/ug_diet_rd.html

Anyone can call him/herself a "nutritionist" irrespective of their training or knowledge.
 
Update

Well, despite my protests, my mum is going to this clinic to have these tests done - I was told rather patronisingly that 'people my age don't believe in nutrition' - Well f*ck me- i didn't realise it was a religion; i thought i was drawing conclusions based upon the best scientific evidence available, but clearly that doesn't matter! I'll keep this updated as this progresses.
 
I've heard that a fair number of psychiatrists will advise getting enough omega 3 fatty acids if you have a mood disorder. (Offered with no endorsement!). Apart from that, I suspect the treatment offered is entirely bogus. I think preying on the mentally ill is one of the more heinous activities out there, incidentally.

My other half is bipolar. The one thing I've realised is that it's important to shop around for a psychiatrist and a therapist who are "compatible". Our current psychiatrist has just the right mix of being willing to alter medications but not use her as a guinea pig, and the result has been a steady improvement over the last few years. The previous one was a nightmare whose attitude was exactly wrong for dealing with her particular mood issues - as often as not she would lapse into paranoia after consultations and occasionally end up being hospitalised. Therapists have been even more of a mixed bag, from the criminally incompetent ("your mind is like a tv set, you can change channles") through the stunningly good.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom