Savage on Autism

Dancing David

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Savage the host of Savage Nation , a sydicated radio show had the following to say
"I'll tell you what autism is. In 99 percent of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out. That's what autism is. What do you mean they scream and they're silent? They don't have a father around to tell them, 'Don't act like a moron.' "

http://mediamatters.org/items/200807170005?f=h_top

Not that he doesn't say a lot of stupid things:
http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/tags/michael_savage?f=h_hot
 
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No idea who this Savage chap is but leaning towards mindless prick who opens his mouth to let the build up of ill informed prejudices out before they blow his head off.

Just a wild guess like.
 
Never heard of Mr.Savage. He certainly seems like a bit of a twit, but occasionally there's a weak signal discernible in the noise of the emptiest vessel.


There is a clear tendency in certain areas to ascribe any social failing in children- or indeed in adults- to one "syndrome" or other.

Drunks are no longer drunks, they have alcoholism.

Lazy people have fatigue syndrome.

Thieves have "kleptomania".

Some of the time, this view is justified and helpful.
If treating behaviour X as illness "I(X)" gets people over it, fine and dandy- whether I(X) actually exists or not.

But if it merely provides an excuse to persist in behaviour X, then it is a useless strategy.

Pretending every badly behaved brat has ADHD or autism will not help either the brat or the people who genuinely DO have those conditions. Indeed it harms both and adds insult to the injury of those who do have the condition. (I don't have the slightest doubt autism exists as a spectrum of neurological problems. I'm less convinced by M.E. and I don't believe in alcoholism at all. (I do believe in drunks. I know several)).

Where the problem is not medical, but attitudinal, then what needs adjusted is attitude. That can't be done by indulgence, or by pretending the cause is not what it is.
The trick is knowing which case is which- and thatcan be genuinely hard.

It is made even harder when any departure from the default, "syndrome" view is seen as unhelpful because unsympathetic.

Sometimes, being unsympathetic is the kindest way to be. We need to separate those cases and handle them appropriately.
 
Michael Savage is a right leaning demagogue.
He is relatively intelligent but his beliefs blind him to his idiocy. He isn't far off from Rush Limbaugh on many issues.
 
I don't know about the USA but autism is not diagnosed willy nilly here. There are no associated medications and the main thrust of the support is in teaching the child strategies in how to communicate with peer groups and how to cope with their own frustrations in not being able to do so effectively.

As a father of an autistic daughter, who like many autistic children also has severe gut problems and has suffered from ulcerative colitis since she was 13, I take umbrage at Mr Savage's drivel. He talks out of ignorance and, to use his own father's words, is being a fool.

Despite my daughter's illness and missing a lot of school she still managed to pass the exams she needed and is going to college in September. Quite what his gripe about the condition is is not clear to me. Was it just an intro to have a go at ethnic minorities? Perhaps he also believes people will stop bleeding internally if you just tell them to snap out of it?

I appreciate that Ritalin and the like have been over prescribed for hyperactivity but that is a separate issue.

Would doctors in the US really prescribe asthma drugs to healthy people btw?
 
There are a number of willfully ignorant people on this planet. Some of them are given money to demonstrate the depth and breadth of that ignorance to anyone who will listen. Trying to educate or otherwise disabuse them of their ignorance is like teaching pigs to sing.


FWIW, my initial response to the OP violated multiple sections of the MA.



Boo (mom of 9 y/o Autistic twins)
 
Why Asperger's specifically?
(Genuine query. I know very little about it , but thought it was on the "autism spectrum" I mentioned above.
 
Meh, Savage is a complete a-hole. He had a television show until he told one of his callers to get AIDS and die.

I mean, yes, there is an issue with some psychologists being a little diagnosis happy. But it is hardly an overwhelming majority. My first one had suggested Asperger's for me among a lot of others. My other psychologists rarely/never whip out the DSM IV and are not concerned as much with finding labels.

But yeah, even my conservatives family members think Savage is nuts.
 
Why Asperger's specifically?
(Genuine query. I know very little about it , but thought it was on the "autism spectrum" I mentioned above.

Asperger's is also called "high functioning" autism, and some think it is different from autism.

Because it is "high functioning", there is a higher chance for misdiagnosis.
 
Savage is a retard!

I feel for any parent of an Autistic child who had to hear or read his stupid comments.
 
Never heard of Mr.Savage. He certainly seems like a bit of a twit, but occasionally there's a weak signal discernible in the noise of the emptiest vessel.


There is a clear tendency in certain areas to ascribe any social failing in children- or indeed in adults- to one "syndrome" or other.

Drunks are no longer drunks, they have alcoholism.

Lazy people have fatigue syndrome.

Thieves have "kleptomania".

Some of the time, this view is justified and helpful.
If treating behaviour X as illness "I(X)" gets people over it, fine and dandy- whether I(X) actually exists or not.

But if it merely provides an excuse to persist in behaviour X, then it is a useless strategy.

Pretending every badly behaved brat has ADHD or autism will not help either the brat or the people who genuinely DO have those conditions. Indeed it harms both and adds insult to the injury of those who do have the condition. (I don't have the slightest doubt autism exists as a spectrum of neurological problems. I'm less convinced by M.E. and I don't believe in alcoholism at all. (I do believe in drunks. I know several)).

Where the problem is not medical, but attitudinal, then what needs adjusted is attitude. That can't be done by indulgence, or by pretending the cause is not what it is.
The trick is knowing which case is which- and thatcan be genuinely hard.

It is made even harder when any departure from the default, "syndrome" view is seen as unhelpful because unsympathetic.

Sometimes, being unsympathetic is the kindest way to be. We need to separate those cases and handle them appropriately.

That's a very nice man of straw you've built up and knocked down there.

Wait! Before rushing to that Reply button, please finish reading my post...

There have certainly been plenty of conditions that have either been prematurely diagnosed or misdiagnosed in many cases, especially over the last twenty years. ADD was a fairly potent fad, especially in the 1990's, though most likely not as much as the detractors of treatment would have like and probably more than its defenders would have liked. The phenomenon of 'erectile dysfunction' has certainly exploded from its formerly meager (and mostly elderly) beginnings-- though it is fair to say that there are more people of a higher age in the US today than there were 5, 10, or 15 years ago, and that may be part of the contributing factor (but can't account for the huge size of the ED treatment market). I'm not really going to go too far into diagnoses of depression and possible correlations with overall fitness in the US, though, because I don't think there's sufficient correlative evidence and there are other mitigating factors (like 9/11, two wars, eight years of increasingly partisan politics, etc.) that likely have a lot more to do with overall morale in the country. I also happen to be someone who thinks gastric bypass surgeries are performed way too often on people who don't actually need it. There are a number of medical conditions, not all of which deal with moods or personalities, where I believe the medical field has gotten in the habit of over-prescribing. I don't think it's quite as bad as its sharpest critics or quite as wrong as its staunchest defenders, but I think there are both some merits and some histrionics involved in accusations of over-diagnosing or over-prescribing people for problems.

I believe it was back in WWI (though it could have been WWII, someone can correct me) when (steel) helmets were first being issued to soldiers, and to some decent amount of protest. As a result there were huge increases in the number of head injuries from combat being reported. It was initially considered to be a flaw that was causing injuries (and sometimes later fatalities) by detractors to these new helmets. I do believe there was even supposed to be a redesign that never finished (because the war ended). However, looking back on the data it seems that there were more head injuries being reported because more people were surviving-- albeit still heavily injured-- hits by shrapnel or glancing rounds or other things that had previously been killing troops instantly. The concept of body armor in the twentieth century has served to save literally millions of lives since that time. As a matter of fact, in nearly every American war so far the types of non-fatal injuries has widened in range while the number of casualties continues to drop due to this very technology. This is even an issue today with troops in Iraq and Afghanistan (most notably victims of IEDs).

But how does that relate to what I'm talking about? Well, specifically in the case of autism, a similar phenomenon has been taking place. A greater number of children are being diagnosed with autism these days for two main reasons: 1. medical science knows a whole lot more about the brain today than it did even half a century ago, and 2. methods for detecting (and treating) autism and its less-extreme related conditions (like Aspergers) have improved dramatically over the last 30 years. The result is that we're seeing more people diagnosed with it today than have been in previous generations. Much like detractors of helmets in WWI (and other types of body armor in subsequent wars) there are critics who cite the increase in diagnoses of autism to quackery or, in more woo-ish cases, to things like inoculation or aluminum cans or something that so far seems completely unrelated.

People like Sigmund Freud contributed much to the field of psychotherapy and psychiatry, but they've also left lasting images of pseudoscience as well (sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, after all). It needs to be stressed, however, that autism is a condition that isn't diagnosed simply through observation There are specific brain functions and chemical makeups that modern science knows take place-- or in some cases doesn't take place-- in autistic brains and the medical community has spend many years refining processes to test for this. Autism is a physical condition, not a mental one, and it also has been associated with other physical conditions as side effects of the autism. Views like the radio personality mentioned in the original post are reminders that not everyone is aware of this, and that kind of willful ignorance is an insult to the overall basic intelligence of the general population as a whole, and can be insulting to those who know better either through experience or association.

We don't tell someone who has broken an arm to get over it or someone who has torn a ligament to walk it off, nor do we tell someone who is born blind or deaf that they just need to deal with it and stop whining. The situation really isn't significantly different for those with autism, except for the symptoms and how it affects the individual.

Okay, go ahead and hit reply now to tell me I'm mistaken. :)
 
I wonder if he's getting two often-talked about psychological issues or just their names mixed up with each other here. ADD/ADHD is pretty commonly talked about by plenty of other people the way he's talking about autism; switch the names and there's nothing unusual about what he's saying.

* * *

What makes Asperger's Syndrome different from (regular or severe) autism in this context, and more like ADD, is that people who have it can appear pretty normal a lot of the time, so when the behavioral oddities do appear, it's easy for an outside observer to see it as simply bad behavior on the part of a normal person who could do better, not a symptom of a condition that makes doing better impossible.
 
There are 3 turd spewers holding the top spots in talk radio in the USA, and Savage is one of them:
http://66.227.50.219/main/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=44

All 3 - Limbaugh, Hannity and Savage should be getting 24/7 care in a psychiatric ward. Or should be banned from the airwaves.

But instead, millions listen to these jerkweeds, and each is handsomely rewarded with annual 7-figure paychecks.

I've got an autistic nephew. I want to drag Savage to my sister and brother-in-law's house and make him repeat his statement to them directly.
 
Ugh. This is an attitude that really ticks me off. I do acknowledge that there is a lot of temptation to medicalize behaviour problems, and that it isn't always appropriate. A competent developmental psychologist or psychiatrist should be able to identify which children really have a disorder and which are just spoiled, but I have no doubt that mistakes get made.

That said, it is very, very easy to write a child off as an ill-mannered brat without looking any closer. I've seen parents do it. I've seen teachers do it. Not just kids with autism or AD/HD, but kids with severe sensory integration dysfunction, anxiety disorders, specific language impairment, apraxia of speech, even hearing impairment.

I'm a speech-language pathologist, so my experience is mostly with SLI, apraxia, and autism. Kids with these disorders often have behaviour problems. Imagine how frustrating it would be if something were upsetting you, and you were physically unable to tell anyone what the problem was. Yelling at these kids and telling them to cut out the tantrums won't help, because they do not have a more efficient way to make themselves understood.

Those skills have to be taught, and, depending on the nature and severity of the problem, it can be a long, frustrating process. It takes time. It takes effort. It generally takes money. Most of all, it takes patience.

So much easier, in the end, to just dismiss them as ill-mannered brats.

:mad: :boggled: :(
 
Can we go ahead and dismiss Michael "Savage" as an ill-mannered brat and be done with it?
 

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