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Satanism, Paganism, Atheism, Christianity

Yahweh

Philosopher
Y
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
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I have been doing some research online on different religions. I started off trying to entertain myself by looking up anything I can find on the beliefs of Satanism and Wiccanism. I expected to find a whole mess of stuff that I thought would be interesting such as what science goes behind Healing Crystals or if Satanists really are that evil. It turns out that mosts Satanists dont believe in Satan, God, Heaven, Hell... they are essentially atheists. I even found the politically correct terms for all sorts of religions. Atheism is also known as Humanist Secularism, Satanism is known as Nonhumanist Secularism.

Why did I bother wasting my time searching around the internet for Satanism and Wiccanism in the first place. Well, I saw a program on the Sci Fi channel called Evil: The Reality of Satanism and Evil: Witchcraft. During the first one I saw a guy claiming to be a Satanist and he didnt seem at all evil, he was probably nicer than most Christians that I know. He mentioned not believeing in God or Satan and it was of interest to me. I made the horrific ignorant mistake of attempting to AOL message boards as a source of quick intelligible answers to some of my questions... and I dont even want to get into how that turned out.

So far what I've learned about Satanism is that it is not killing animals, sacrificing humans, dark rituals, or even going to a Satanic Church (Only for the insane or for Dungeons and Dragons Cults). It's philosophy is: You are on this earth for a short time until you die, and just as long as you dont annoy or kill no one, indulge yourself.

Question: Is Satanism morally wrong?
 
"Atheism is also known as Humanist Secularism"

It may be known as such, but this is a false premise. An atheist is merely someone that doesn't believe in a god or gods. Humanist Secularism is a whole philosophy that involves a belief system which includes atheism. Atheists can be humanist but not all atheists are humanist.

"Satanism is known as Nonhumanist Secularism."

Maybe, but you discount the small group of people that actually worship "the devil" and do believe that they are fighting against jesus and god. LeVeyan Satanism is what you are talking about when you say they believe in no gods.

"You are on this earth for a short time until you die, and just as long as you dont annoy or kill no one, indulge yourself.

Question: Is Satanism morally wrong?"

For this definition of Satanism, I would say that it's not morally wrong.
 
1. Like thaiboxerken said, atheism and secular humanism are not the same thing. Atheism is only a world-view and secular humanism is an entire philosophy which included that world-view as a tenet. Also Satanism is not "non-humanist secularism". It is, IMO, dressed up secular humanism. The tenets are basically the same, accept Satanism (at least the Anton LaVey variety) includes a lot of occultism (which LaVey, as well as 90% of it's followers don't even believe in anyway) and Nietzscheanism.

2. Satanism is not morally wrong in the least, I actually tend to agree with the libertarian/dionysian vien of the philosophy. Since I don't believe in gods, souls, angels, ghost, spirits, or any afterlife, I agree that this life is all that we have and that we should enjoy it. What sets me apart from Satanists is my lack of need for "occult rituals" and other junk (although the infernal names in the Satanic Bible are sure fun to say every once in a while). I also find that Nietzsche went over the deep end in his later life (read "The Antichrist" and you'll se what I mean).
 
I did a similar research project, comparing Christianity, Wicca, and Satanism.
Overall, Christianity teaches the ten commandments, love thy nieghbour etc...
Wicca in short, teaches the golden rule... The "Wiccan Rede" Is a page long and that sums it up rather well.
Satanism teaches to be greedy, get angry, etc if you want to.
However, satanism did not appeal to me for a few reasons.
One satanic statement said If someone annoys you, tell him to stop. If he continues, destroy him. Destroying, in any interpretation, is not something I would consider a virtue for this statement.
The next thing that didnt appeal was "removing so called equality." Equal rights for all being taken away doesnt really sound so good.

The last thing... Tax all churches. I have no problem with it I guess, providing the churches have enough money to do so.

Also, some satanists believe in magick etc while others just follow the philosophy.
 
One satanic statement said If someone annoys you, tell him to stop. If he continues, destroy him. Destroying, in any interpretation, is not something I would consider a virtue for this statement.
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I'm sure that the word annoy is an understatement. Even though I'm not usually the type of person who tries to look for hidden meanings in texts, I'm sure what annoy refers to is something regarding stealing your belongings, hurting you family or pets, hurting your property. I'm sure it isnt talking about little pet peeves such as when people interrupt midsentence, or tap constantly, or chew food loudly. Destroy... yet another word that doesnt sound at all appealing but I'm more than certain that destroying someone does not refer to viscerating their innards. You have to remember one of the other of the 9 Satanic statements which says "Only kill for food or shelter, never for pleasure or out of anger. Never kill humans. Never kill children, as they are the most pure" or something to that extent... more than likely not an exact quote but I dont feel like taking the time to spend a few minutes tracking down the 9 Satanic Statements. So the word 'destroy', I would assume that it means use some form of assertiveness to get them to stop whatever it is that they are doing (like calling the police).

From what I read satanism does not say "be greedy". And I must have missed that part that talks about removing the equality of someone. Yes, a small percentage of Satanists might practice magycks, but I think I established religions have at least some freaks.... I cant believe I, as a devout atheist, am defending Satanism.
 
At first it is necessary to separate satan worship and satanism.
Sadistic,criminal behavior with rituals and a form of philosophy.

I remember reading how someone joked about what a mess you can make out of this stuff when you exaggerate it a bit.Satan worship is a young cult and has some followers in western regions.Sex,occultism,feeling of power and related things I believe,which drive people into such.

I believe what LaVey meant with satanism is that people do feel the need for something spiritual which occult aspects do fill,I do not believe him or many others subscribe to something "supernormal".In this context,what behavior or what could be considered rituals,are applied in order to release strength from oneself.Satanism could be considered an intellectual pattern if compared.
I´m not saying it is a positive philosophy nor I´m saying that it is completely bad,I do not know about those "destruct" statements.
I do know that if you compare christian "turn the other cheek" to satanic teachings,you will come up with something like "hit back with at least equal strength" which is somewhat understandable.
As far as I know,teachings should go to the direction of "do whatever you wish,but do not unnecessarily harm others".I remember how someone joked about how some liberal christian churches teach the same.
I also do think LaVey was an atheist just like me or many of us.
 
Yahweh said:


So far what I've learned about Satanism is that it is not killing animals, sacrificing humans, dark rituals, or even going to a Satanic Church (Only for the insane or for Dungeons and Dragons Cults). It's philosophy is: You are on this earth for a short time until you die, and just as long as you dont annoy or kill no one, indulge yourself.

Question: Is Satanism morally wrong?
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Yahweh,

Interesting info. In your research did you discover how or why the word "Satanism" came to describe this philosophy?
 
I like what you have to say Darwin, you have clearly researched well. You are an inspiration to anyone who doesnt worship invisible men that live in the clouds.
 
Well, how did Satanism come to be the word used to describe the "feel good about yourself, dont take bad things seriously, live a little have fun" philosophy that is satanism. I'm not a Satanist but from what I can come up with is this, Satan promotes exactly the Church urges that you supress. It promotes indulgence whereas Christianity promotes abstinence. I promotes defend yourself and fight back if someone strikes you, rather than turning the other cheek. Theres a few things that Satanism philosophies and Christian philosophies both agree on, which is "DONT KILL PEOPLE!!!" It says dont expect much more out of life than what you can make happen yourself (much the opposite of prayer). The only thing about the Satanic philosophies that I question is why use the word Satanic. It seems like using a scary uninviting word like Satanic might have been more a mistake. If the philosophies were called something nicer like "Bunnyism"... It seems that people who follow the Satanic Philosophies and the very small proportion of Satanists who actually worship His Darkness sharing the same name, uhhh someone put on that Odd Couple theme song. People dont like the name Satanic because they dont like Satan.
 
Judaism, Christianity, Islamism, Wiccaism, Satanism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shamanism, Shintoism, and most other 'isms are just different sides of the same coin. They imply a belief in some higher power, be it good, bad or indifferent, and each side sees the other side's higher power as bad.

Atheism on the other hand does not recognize any higher power, at least not this atheist. It is all nature, and totally indifferent to our existence or survival. We exist purely at the mercy of natural forces, subject to change without notice.

It was the mind of primitive man from which all gods sprung, much to the continued detriment of modern mankind, and I am depressed when I realize it will never change for a long time yet, if at all.
 
Question: Is Satanism morally wrong?
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Yes, because it is self-indulgent. The principle of "do as you will so long as you don't harm others" neglects the fact that you have positive moral duties.

Well, how did Satanism come to be the word used
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Because when LeViegh started writing, Christianity was so dominate that opposing it in anyway could only be described from within the system.
 
Originally posted by Yahzi
Yes, because it is self-indulgent. The principle of "do as you will so long as you don't harm others" neglects the fact that you have positive moral duties.
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Like what? Who gets to decide what those moral duties are?
 
Ah, I see. So surrendering your free will to an authority, so that they can dictate to you what is right and wrong is the best solution?

I suppose I could cite a lot of historic and modern instances of mayhem and slaughter where ignoring your own consciencs in deference to someone else's mandate was considered "best", but really, what's the point?

In short: either you have your own "moral compass", or you're lost. Not in the sense of "lost to some make-believe afterworld", but in the sense of "lost to yourself".

If you can't discern what's right from wrong for yourself, what makes you believe you could ever correctly follow instructions for what is right from wrong?
 
I believe satanism just started as another counter culture phenomena of truning things on thier heads. It has since grown out of it's original roots, Lucifer, Set and Typhon seem to be the dieties of choice. Then there are the rock and roll stanists who kill kittens and knock over gravestones because they think it will make them evil.

The original quote is 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law'...'Love is the Law, Love under Will." Although I am sure that Crowley stole it from somewhere.

The neo pagans converted it to ' and harm ye none, do what thou wilt."

Yahzi: the point of the quote is that if you do your 'true will' then you are in harmony with the universe and don't need morals.
 
I don't think that's what Yahzi was reffering to. The quotes "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" and "love is the law, love under will" are trademarks of Crowley's system, Thelema. Satanism and Thelema have almost nothing to do with each other, but they are often considered in the same vein as they are somewhat similar.

(BTW, I think you're right about Crowley stealing the quotes, as I read somehwere that they were origionally concoted by the occultist Eliphas Levi.)
 
hey I was trying to avoid overloading the answer, so I didn't mention Thelema, I thought Yahzi was saying the DWTW was an incomplete system as it did not provide for moral behavior.

I am glad to see someone else has done thier reading, Levu would make sense but I figured it was something Crowley had stumbled across in the classic literature and then arfed out in the book of the law.
 
Originally posted by Dancing David
hey I was trying to avoid overloading the answer, so I didn't mention Thelema, I thought Yahzi was saying the DWTW was an incomplete system as it did not provide for moral behavior.
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I see, my apologies.

Originally posted by Dancing David
I am glad to see someone else has done thier reading, Levu would make sense but I figured it was something Crowley had stumbled across in the classic literature and then arfed out in the book of the law.
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No way! The Book of the Law was really written by an entity named Aiwazz while Crowley was in a "high mystical trance" remember?

(Note the sarcasm)
 
yeah that was after he and Rose could see in the dark while inside the great pyramid. Although I often feel that the purple robe means astral travel and/or vaginal sex.
 
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