"Sapphire water" fire supression system

Mr. Skinny

Alien Cryogenic Engineer
Mr. Skinny
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Messages
7,843
Tyco is introducing a new fire supression product called Sapphire water.

I saw it demonstrated on the TV show Good Morning America and the stuff is really intriguing.

They had an aquarium tank of this colorless liquid, and proceeded to submerge a laptop computer, television monitor, books, etc. into the liquid. The electronics would continue to work while submerged. When items were removed from the tank, they would be dry to the touch in a matter of seconds.

The hosts of the show were pouring the stuff on their clothing, and it would be almost instantaneously dry.

I could observe some of the liquid vaporizing in the strong television lighting when the liquid was pouring off of various objects, but there was no aparent vapors coming off of the aquarium tank.

The company representative claims the liquid is environmentally safe, and was touting its application as a fire suppression agent in libraries, computer rooms, and other areas where water damage would be significant.

Does anyone have any idea what this material might be based on?

I'm still scratching my head over this one.
 
LFTKBS said:
Awesome. Any video of it?
Click to expand...
Don't know of any LFTKBS. They showed a small video on the TV show with an automatic sprinkler head extinguishing a pan of what appeared to be a burning flammable liquid, but I haven't checked for video clips on the web, since I'm on a dial-up connection.
 
it is a perfluorinated ketone. It is probably not good for ones liver/kidneys. and I don't know if it will go through the skin.

It may be "safe" but safe is a relative term.



all the fluorine makes it hydrophobic so it won't wet anything, and it is not conducting so electronics won't be affected. not sure if it will melt certain plastics.


Virgil
 
ceptimus said:
It's 3M 'NOVEC' Fire protection fluid.
Click to expand...
The 3M site says NOVEC is stored as a liquid and discharged as a gas. Sapphire water was shown being discharged as a liquid and stayed liquid at room temperature/pressure.

Not sure it's the same thing Ceptimus.
 
Virgil said:
it is a perfluorinated ketone. It is probably not good for ones liver/kidneys. and I don't know if it will go through the skin.

It may be "safe" but safe is a relative term.



all the fluorine makes it hydrophobic so it won't wet anything, and it is not conducting so electronics won't be affected. not sure if it will melt certain plastics.


Virgil
Click to expand...
I'd be interested in your source Virgil (unless you are refering to the info Ceptimus posted).

The stuff didn't seem to attack the plastics on the laptop or TV monitor, though, admittedly, the exposure was short.
 
I would bet if it is not the same it is similar.

for example 3m patented Novec, while dupont patented shappire water. by making small changes in the molecular structure allows for a new patent and slightly different properties.



these perfluorinated compounds were used long ago as diving fluid. instead of breathing air for deep deep dives you inhale a liquid with dissolved oxygen in it. Don't know if it ever went into use with the Navy.


you rember the demo of the live mouse be held under in a beaker of a perfluorinated compound.


Virgil
 
Virgil said:
I would bet if it is not the same it is similar.

for example 3m patented Novec, while dupont patented shappire water. by making small changes in the molecular structure allows for a new patent and slightly different properties.



these perfluorinated compounds were used long ago as diving fluid. instead of breathing air for deep deep dives you inhale a liquid with dissolved oxygen in it. Don't know if it ever went into use with the Navy.


you rember the demo of the live mouse be held under in a beaker of a perfluorinated compound.


Virgil
Click to expand...
What they were supposed to be using in the movie "Abyss"?

Reb
 
Mr. Skinny said:

I'd be interested in your source Virgil (unless you are refering to the info Ceptimus posted).

The stuff didn't seem to attack the plastics on the laptop or TV monitor, though, admittedly, the exposure was short.
Click to expand...



I really don't have a source per se, just being in chemistry for 15 years you read and pick up things. See some posters at national meetings etc.




it is well known in the art, that heavily fluorinating organic molecules drasticaly reduces their water soulbility and many other properties.

I know that if you get a fluorine burn (and if it doesn't kill you outright) it will 'weep' for years and years.\


Virgil
 
"weep":eek:

What on earth does that mean? I knew halogens were nasty, but how nasty are we talking here?

What if you just used distilled water? That isn't conductive.

Aren't straight chain alkanes with halogen/hydrogen replacements ozone depleting? Would the same apply to a ketone?
 
Mr. Skinny said:

The 3M site says NOVEC is stored as a liquid and discharged as a gas. Sapphire water was shown being discharged as a liquid and stayed liquid at room temperature/pressure.

Not sure it's the same thing Ceptimus.
Click to expand...
Well the data I posted shows the boiling point as 120.6F

But here is more evidence that they are the same thing: http://www.ansul.com/fireprotection/Products/Inergen/F-2003127.pdf

(the name Sapphire is part of the datasheet)

Maybe Sapphire Water has some other stuff present, besides this, but I bet this is the key ingredient.
 
neutrino_cannon said:
"weep":eek:

What on earth does that mean? I knew halogens were nasty, but how nasty are we talking here?

What if you just used distilled water? That isn't conductive.

Aren't straight chain alkanes with halogen/hydrogen replacements ozone depleting? Would the same apply to a ketone?
Click to expand...


for a wound to weep means that it will ooze stuff for the next 20 years after the burn..pus, serum, misc fluids very nasty... and painful I'm told. and they never heal 'right'. alawys scars that never go away.

you do not want to be near a F2 leak or explosion.

distilled water will pick up all kinds of junk unless it is handled under very rigourous conditions. I will double distill some water and you can place your laptop in it... ;)


my guess is yes. they would be as bad a staight chain flurocarbons. However by being a ketone it my not be covered under any of the CFC bans/laws. you see the laws are written by lawyers not by scientist . Also I recall the Chlorine is must worse ozone disruptor the fluorine

Reb: I believe you are correct about the Abyss, however I do not know if it actually is used in humans by the Navy. they studied it for a while...

virgil
 
The data sheet says that the 3M stuff (assuming this is the same as Sappire Water) has 0.0 ozone depletion potential, and an atmospheric lifetime of just 5 days.
 
What a fun thread. Let's talk about fluorine burns.

Any examples or studies avaiable, Virgil?

Why won't they heal?

Googling for "weeping wound"s serves up some dumb blogs and little solid info.

More more more!
 
LFTKBS said:
What a fun thread. Let's talk about fluorine burns.

Any examples or studies avaiable, Virgil?

Why won't they heal?

Googling for "weeping wound"s serves up some dumb blogs and little solid info.

More more more!
Click to expand...
We use hydrofluoric acid occasionally at my workplace. We keep special Hf treatment kits in those labs.

I understand Hf ultimately attacks the bone structure, which is why it is do destructive and painful. The pictures I've seen of Hf injuries are pretty horrific.
 
Virgil and Ceptimus

Lots of interesting info from both of you, which is what I was looking for.

I agree that distilled water wouldn't be pure enough for this stuff.

I'm guessing that if it had ketones in it, people wouldn't have been sticking their hands in it and pouring it on their clothes, but then again, I'm thinking of MEK, MIBK, and other nasty hydrocarbons.
 
LFTKBS said:
What a fun thread. Let's talk about fluorine burns.

Any examples or studies avaiable, Virgil?

Why won't they heal?

Googling for "weeping wound"s serves up some dumb blogs and little solid info.

More more more!
Click to expand...


this is info my undergrad prof told me. he was burnt badly while in grad school. he said his oozed for 20 years, and never healed right. most scars get better over time these don't. the one time I saw his arms, they looked creepy even after 20 years.

most likey IMO it was the HF from the decomp of F2 gets in the wound and is not washed out at the hospital. so it is "sealed in" and continues to irritate the tissue, causing excess fluid to build up and leak out. throuh the badly healed scar tissue


this is also seen with bromine burns.

I'm a chemist not a Medical Doctor so take this medical advice with a grain of salt. I'm sure third twin could tell us the proper medical name for this sort of injury.

these injurys were from the 1960' so perhaps ER docs have improved their treatments to prevent or fix this condition.



Virgil
 
Mr. Skinny said:

We use hydrofluoric acid occasionally at my workplace. We keep special Hf treatment kits in those labs.

I understand Hf ultimately attacks the bone structure, which is why it is do destructive and painful. The pictures I've seen of Hf injuries are pretty horrific.
Click to expand...


the HF is a weaker acid vs say HCl. but in the body the F- will "pull" the calcium out of your bones to form CaF2. also the F- can somehow distrupt the electrlyte balance of you body and cause your heart to stop or beat too fast or something...

HF is the best for cleaning glassware....gives you a virgin layer of glass.


Virgil
 
But whether an acid is strong or weak says little about how potent it is, just whether it disassociates quickly or slowly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom