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Merged Russia threatens Finland & Sweden/ they may join within months

"Don't join NATO, or we will attack you!"

"Why don't you want us to join NATO?"

"We might want to attack you at some point, and that will be more difficult if you join NATO."
 
Nobody would join NATO if they were not afraid that someday Russia may try to kill them. Its that simple.

In one stroke Putin has shown the world the incredible value of NATO and being a NATO member. Nobody will ever question the value of NATO membership again.
 
Hercules56 said:
Nobody would join NATO if they were not afraid that someday Russia may try to kill them. Its that simple.

In one stroke Putin has shown the world the incredible value of NATO and being a NATO member. Nobody will ever question the value of NATO membership again.
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Besides our previous president, who wanted to pull completely out of NATO but couldn't.
 
FInland just signed a deal for a number of US F35 fighters.
And FInland is quite good at giving Russia bloody nose; see Winter War 1939-40.
 
I suspect Nato or no Nato membership, if Putin makes serious noises about Finland, You will se US and Nato troops there.
 
Well, here in Finland we see ourselves as quite a logical next step after Ukraine if Moscow really is as deranged as it seems. But to our size we are pretty well armed, among others the largest artillery in Western Europe, reserves for up to half million trained soldiers and quite sophisticated tactis (designed only one opponent in mind - hint, not Sweden).

This article is 10 years old and we have quietly being getting stronger ever since - still, better air defence would be needed and experts think that we would need Nato assistance after 2-3 months of attack. But no cake walk into these deep forests.

https://www.politico.eu/article/finland-tones-up-its-security-muscles/

edit: On the other hand, Sweden basically dismantled their land forces after the Cold War - I think they are relying on ours which is a time honoured tradition there...
 
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But where are the Putin apologists to tell us that he did not really threaten them and that it is their own fault that Putin is talking about them while not threatening them?
 
llwyd said:
Well, here in Finland we see ourselves as quite a logical next step after Ukraine if Moscow really is as deranged as it seems. But to our size we are pretty well armed, among others the largest artillery in Western Europe, reserves for up to half million trained soldiers and quite sophisticated tactis (designed only one opponent in mind - hint, not Sweden).

This article is 10 years old and we have quietly being getting stronger ever since - still, better air defence would be needed and experts think that we would need Nato assistance after 2-3 months of attack. But no cake walk into these deep forests.

https://www.politico.eu/article/finland-tones-up-its-security-muscles/

edit: On the other hand, Sweden basically dismantled their land forces after the Cold War - I think they are relying on ours which is a time honoured tradition there...
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Sanna Marin, Warrior Woman.
 
Doubt said:
But where are the Putin apologists to tell us that he did not really threaten them and that it is their own fault that Putin is talking about them while not threatening them?
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Remember - when the man beats up his ex-wife because she threatened to call the cops on him for the last time he threatened beat her up, then it is the cops fault. He had no choice, they made him do it.
 
According to a professor at Turku University, Louis Clerc, it is a mistake to call Putin 'crazy'. In his view, Putin is coldly and rationally following a plan he has had since the 1990's.

Russian President Vladimir Putin is not crazy, says Louis Clerc , a professor of political history at the University of Turku. He believes that such speech and attitude should be abandoned.

“This isn’t any James Bond movie where the bad guy rubs the white cat and thinks perverted,” Clerc says.

- Putin has a clear and determined idea and a political project to which he has been determined for about fifteen years.

According to Clerc, Putin's goals are rooted in his mistreatment of Russia in the 1990s, which in a way ended Putin's sphere of influence and weakened Russia. Throughout the 21st century, Putin has sought to remedy this situation.
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<snip>

According to Clerc, since 2008 the direction of Russia has been the same all the time and the means are constantly getting harder and harder.

The big question is in which direction Russia and Putin are going next.

- Is it conceivable that the next target would be the Baltic countries, for example. Clerc is wondering if he is trying to rebuild Russia's sphere of influence so that Poland, possibly Romania and then Finland, are also targeted.

However, Clerc emphasizes that Russia's attack on NATO or EU countries is really unlikely. According to him, the most likely is the rapid collapse of Ukraine and the gradual return to "normal."
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It could be said, of course, that people tend to become 'fans' of the subject they are studying. OTOH as a professor of political history, he likely knows better than most as to what may happen next.

- But it is good to start thinking about these questions, in which direction Putin's activities are going and what Finland is doing, Clerc says.

Russia has long deliberately irritated the surrounding states, for example with state border violations. With the onset of the Crimean conflict, airspace violations by Russian military aircraft against the Finnish state increased.

In 2018, the Airiston Helmi in the Turku archipelago made headlines when the police searched there.

According to Clerc, it is clear that the Airiston Pearl is related to what Russia is currently doing to Ukraine.

- Russia has played this kind of play in the border areas. It ruthlessly seeks its own interests and positions, complicating matters for other states, Clerc says.

Although the states tolerate a reasonable degree of espionage from each other, the actions of Russian or Russian parties at Airisto went beyond the tolerance of the Finnish state.

- Very little information has been leaked to the public. But apparently the Russians were looking for land in strategic places in the archipelago from which it would be possible to make shipping more difficult during a crisis or war, Clerc says.
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TS


Airiston Helmi relates to a Russian-owned company in the archipelago being investigated since September 2018 for money laundering and gross tax evasion after €3m in cash was found there from a cargo haul.

The international line is investigating aggravated money laundering. Police suspect that the proceeds of crime have been hidden in the company. Police have a clear idea of ​​what activities have been carried out internationally and where the predicate offense would have taken place.

Police requested additional time for the investigation and the retention of seizures to secure the continuation of the money laundering investigation.

The company sells its islands and properties. Melnikov intends to sell all its properties in Finland.
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YLE
 
Putin's threats are counterproductive, if he aims to prevent Finland from joining NATO. With the recent Russian military aggression, Finns are becoming more supportive of the idea of joining NATO. Add to that threats against us, and those numbers are likely to only go up.

Someone needs to explain to Putin how human psychology works. The most likely response to threats isn't immediate acquiescence, but the rather, the circling of wagons, and increased distrust of the party doing the threatening.

If Russia shows itself to be truly open to military adventures in Finland, then the most rational thing for Finland to do is to join a larger defensive organization, to deter such ideas.

So if Putin wants to prevent the expansion of Nato towards the East, he is going about it in the exact wrong way.
 
llwyd said:
Well, here in Finland we see ourselves as quite a logical next step after Ukraine if Moscow really is as deranged as it seems. But to our size we are pretty well armed, among others the largest artillery in Western Europe, reserves for up to half million trained soldiers and quite sophisticated tactis (designed only one opponent in mind - hint, not Sweden).

This article is 10 years old and we have quietly being getting stronger ever since - still, better air defence would be needed and experts think that we would need Nato assistance after 2-3 months of attack. But no cake walk into these deep forests.

https://www.politico.eu/article/finland-tones-up-its-security-muscles/

edit: On the other hand, Sweden basically dismantled their land forces after the Cold War - I think they are relying on ours which is a time honoured tradition there...
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Yes, unlike the Ukraine, the Russians wouldn't have an approach from five directions, there is just the 1,000 kilometre land border comprised of dense forest. I was in East Finland the other summer and visited all the trenches from the 1940's which are still there. It would be so ironic, if they came to be needed for use.

North, of course, is sealed off by Norway.
 

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Vixen said:
According to a professor at Turku University, Louis Clerc, it is a mistake to call Putin 'crazy'. In his view, Putin is coldly and rationally following a plan he has had since the 1990's.
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I don't doubt he's following a plan he's had since the 90s. I think that much is obvious. And I'm pretty sure there is a cold and rational way to follow that plan. But whatever the cold and rational implementation is, I think it's also pretty obvious this ain't it.
 
FInland and Sweden just denied a Russian Diplomatic plane aceess to their airspace.
Sort of a response to the Russian theart of yesterday.
 
dudalb said:
FInland just signed a deal for a number of US F35 fighters.
And FInland is quite good at giving Russia bloody nose; see Winter War 1939-40.
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Ok, and Mongolia used to kick some ass under Genghis Khan, and in the 18th century, the United States wasn't a Superpower. Times change, and fast.

Re: OP: rut roh. Will need a new thread with a scarier title if this keeps up. Putin on the Blitz, perhaps?
 
Swordfishtrombone said:
Putin's threats are counterproductive, if he aims to prevent Finland from joining NATO. With the recent Russian military aggression, Finns are becoming more supportive of the idea of joining NATO. Add to that threats against us, and those numbers are likely to only go up.

Someone needs to explain to Putin how human psychology works. The most likely response to threats isn't immediate acquiescence, but the rather, the circling of wagons, and increased distrust of the party doing the threatening.

If Russia shows itself to be truly open to military adventures in Finland, then the most rational thing for Finland to do is to join a larger defensive organization, to deter such ideas.

So if Putin wants to prevent the expansion of Nato towards the East, he is going about it in the exact wrong way.
Click to expand...

One must ask why Sweden and Finland hate Russia so much? Are they Nazis?

Yeah, that's it, they must be Nazis!!!!
 
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