• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Request for 9-11 info source suggestions

Dave Rogers

Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
34,758
Location
Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Hi there.

I've been putting together a critique of Attack Scenario 404, the 911research.wtc7.net account of how the 9-11 conspiracy could have only involved a dozen people. Making a more realistic count of conspirators, I'm currently up to about 1,500, but I have some more to count. Can anybody point me to some reasonably neutral sources for the numbers of people involved in search-and-rescue operations, cleanup, investigations of evidence, and so on? I suspect there is plenty available from online sources comprehensively to debunk the notion that a small conspiracy could have carried out the attacks (damn, it's difficult not to split an infinitive sometimes), but I'm not sure of the best places to look.

Alternatively, if someone's already done this job, let me know and I'll stop.

Thanks,

Dave
 
Hi, Dave. Welcome to the forums. This info may be helpful.

CTs: Were these agencies and organizations involved in the conspiracy or fooled by it?

the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA),
the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
the Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers (SEI/ASCE),
the National Council of Structural Engineers Associations,
the New York City Department of Design and Construction,
the Structural Engineers Association of New York,
the National Fire Protection Association,
the Society of Fire Protection Engineers,
the American Concrete Institute,
the Building and Construction Trades Council,
the American Institute of Steel Construction,
the Masonry Society,
the World Trade Center Insurers
Weidlinger Associates
ARUP USA
the Pentagon security staff,
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers,
hundreds of steelworkers, some of whom built the WTC,
the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat,
Underwriters Laboratories,
the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory,
Controlled Demolitions, Inc.
Bovis, Inc.
Tully Construction
AEMC Construction
Karl Koch Steel Consulting, Inc.
The United Steelworkers of America
the Armed Forces Institute of Technology
the Federal Advisory Committee,
several DNA labs,
Numerous Forensic Pathologists,
Numerous Forensic Anthropologists,
Numerous Forensic Dentists,
Numerous Forensic Radiologists,
the National Medical Response Team,
the International Association of Fire Chiefs
the New York City Police Department Emergency Services Unit
the Fire Department of New York,
the New York City Office of Emergency Management,
the New York State Emergency Management Office,
the Arlington County Fire Department,
the Arlington County Sheriff's Department,
the Arlington County Emergency Medical Services
the Arlington County SWAT Team,
the Arlington, VA Police Department,
the Fairfax County Fire & Rescue,
the FBI's Evidence Recovery Teams,
the Montgomery County Fire & Rescue,
the Alexandria, VA Fire & Rescue
the District of Columbia Fire & Rescue
the Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit
the Military District of Washington Search & Rescue Team
the Fort Myer Fire Department,
the Pentagon Fire Unit,
the Pentagon Medical Unit,
the Pentagon 2-person Helicopter Crash Response Team
the Pentagon Defense Protective Service,
several FBI Hazmat Teams,
several EPA Hazmat Teams,
the Virginia State Police,
the FEMA Virginia-1, Virginia-2, Maryland-1 and Tennessee-1 Task Forces
the DOD Honor Guard
the US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach, Fairfax County and Montgomery County,
the Virginia Department of Emergency Management
the Washington, D.C. Fire Department,
the California Incident Management Team,
the Shanksville, PA VFD,
the Somerset County Coroner's Office,
the Somerset County Emergency Management Agency
the Westmoreland County Emergency Management Agency
the State of Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency
the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection
the Pennsylvania State Funeral Directors Association
the Pennsylvania Region 13 Metropolitan Medical Response Group
the Pennsylvania Department of Health and Human Services,
the Salvation Army Disaster Services,
the National Emergency Numbering Association
the 911 operators who took the calls from passengers,
the American Red Cross,
the National Guard in D.C., NYC, and PA.,
the Air National Guard,
the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
the United States Secret Service,
the Central Intelligence Agency,
the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms,
the New York Port Authority Police,
the New York Port Authority Construction Board
the National Law Enforcement and Security Institute,
the World Trade Center security staff,
the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner for the City of New York
United Airlines,
American Airlines,
the Office of Emergency Preparedness
Several Federal Disaster Mortuary (DMORT) Teams,
Several Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams,
the Fairfax County Urban Search and Rescue Team,
the Virginia State Police
the FEMA Incident Support Team,
the FEMA Emergency Response Team,
the FEMA Disaster Field Office.
the US Department of Defense,
the US Department of Justice,
the US Department of State,
the National Response Center,
North American Aerospace Defense Command,
the National Military Command Center,
the Federal Aviation Administration,
the National Disaster Medical System,
the HHS National Medical Response Team,
the Counterterrorism and Security Group,
the US Army’s Communications-Electronics Command,
the Northeast Air Defense Sector Commanders
three E-4B National Airborne Operations Center planes,
the C-130H crew in D.C.
the Falcon 20 crew in PA,
SACE Prime Power Assessment Teams,
SACE Structural Safety Engineers and Debris Planning and Response Teams,
the Federal Aviation Administration,
the National Transportation Safety Board,
the New York Flight Control Center,
the Air Traffic Control System Command Center in Washington,
the Cleveland Airport control tower,
the Congressional Joint Intelligence Committee,
the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
the New York Times,
the Boston Globe,
the Wall Street Journal,
the Washington Post,
Newsday,
United Press International,
Associated Press,
CNN,
ABC,
NBC,
CBS,
FoxNews
MSNBC,
The government of Saudi Arabia,
The intelligence services of Saudi Arabia,
The government of the Russian Federation,
The government of Pakistan,
The intelligence services of Pakistan,
Al Qaeda,
The Royal Canadian Armed Forces,
The government of the United Kingdom,
The government of Australia,
The government of Israel,
The government of Canada,
The government of New Zealand

***************

In the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, the FBI's response was immediate. In a matter of hours we had deployed to each of the crash sites, ordered dozens of seasoned management personnel back to Washington, and fully staffed a 24/7 operation at our Command Center with up to 500 persons representing approximately 30 federal agencies. At the height of the 9/11 investigation, known as PENTTBOM, the FBI assigned 7,000 agents to assist full-time. The majority were reassigned from other national security and criminal investigative work. The lack of prior counterterroism training and experience, although not recognized by the OIG, needs to be factored into this discussion.

...Meanwhile, PENTTBOM became the largest and most complex investigation in the history of the FBI. In spite of operating under severe handicaps, the New York Office - relocated to a garage on 26th street, and lacking a proficient infrastructure - began a 24/7 operation utilizing 300 investigators from 37 agencies. The 1-800 toll-free line set up in our Atlanta office received 180,000 calls from a shocked public eager to assist. 225,000 e-mails were received on the FBI's internet site. Evidence response teams from throughout the country were dispatched to New York, Washington and Pittsburgh.

Nationwide we covered over 500,000 investigative leads and conducted over 167,000 interviews. We collected over 7,500 pieces of evidence which were submitted for analysis. Working in conjunction with New York City agencies and authorities, we helped process over 1.8 million tons of debris for investigative leads and victim identification and took more than 45,000 crime scene photographs.

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_hr/062503rolince.html

***************

Approximately 7,000 FBI Employees Were Redirected in Early Weeks. At its peak, approximately 6,000 Special Agents were working on the investigation with assistance from support staff. Additional resources were dedicated to the related threats and tragedies such as the anthrax investigation, Olympics security, the Richard Reid investigation, and the Daniel Pearl kidnapping.

New FBI Investigative Groups Were Created. The Financial Review Group, Document Exploitation Group, and E-Mail Exploitation Group were all created since September 11th. In addition, the Telephone Applications Group as well as the Threat, Warning, Analysis and Dissemination Groups were both expanded.
http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/05/fbireorganizationfactsheet.pdf

***************

At least 449 responding organizations in New York City.

Over 8,000 people given security clearance to work at Pentagon crash site

Good look at Arlington County, Virginia (Pentagon) first responder organizational structure

http://dels.nas.edu/dr/docs/harrald.pdf

***************

Flight 93: Shanksville

At Shanksville, which was by far the smallest of the three 9/11 crash scenes, over 1,100 people from 74 agencies and organizations worked at the scene.

On 9/11 alone, these included: • 8 Police Departments • 7 EMS Services • 8 Fire Departments • 10 Emergency Management Agencies • NTSB • ATF • FBI • CISM • Red Cross • United AirlinesSource: PowerPoint presentation by Rick Lohr, Director of Somerset County Emergency Management Agency. Download it here as a PDF
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/SomersetCountyEmergencyManagementAge.pdf

***************

In addition to the estimated 10,000 Fire Department of New York (FDNY) personnel, an estimated 30,000 other workers and volunteers potentially were exposed to numerous psychological stressors, environmental toxins, and other physical hazards.

http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5335a1.htm

***************

Because of ongoing fire activity and the large numbers of civilians and rescue workers who were killed during the attacks, approximately 11,000 FDNY firefighters and many emergency medical service (EMS) personnel worked on or directly adjacent to the rubble and incurred substantial exposures. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12238534&dopt=Abstract

***************

Responders and backup supplies were dispatched from all over the country, including 20 Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) Urban Search and Rescue (USAR) task forces. As many as eight USAR teams worked at a time. The last task forces were released on October 7. http://www.rand.org/pubs/conf_proceedings/CF176/CF176.ch2.pdf

***************

OSHA calculates that in over 3.7 million work hours, only 57 non-life threatening injuries were recorded at the WTC site. http://www.pdhealth.mil/library/downloads/The%20Occupational%20Safety%20and%20Health%20Administration%20Response.pdf


***************

You’re dealing with a work scene that, in the first week or two, had probably two to three thousand, if not more, emergency responders on the scene. Pretty much 24 hours a day. All of them with various backgrounds and training. You had construction workers, you had heavy-equipment operators, you had medical workers, firefighters, police officers, hygienists, military personnel. All of them with different levels of training, different types of equipment. So you had to try and logistically bring in all of the equipment for these people. You’re bringing in multiple manufacturers and vendors. —Firefighter-special-operations panel member http://www.rand.org/pubs/conf_proceedings/CF176/CF176.ch2.pdf


***************

Links to 9/11 forensics and Victim ID
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/linksto911forensicsaqndvictimidentificat

***************

Fresh Kills Crime Scene Info

* The site covered 175 acres.
* 24 local, state, and federal agencies participated, with as many as 1,000 workers a day
* 17,000 tons of material were processed daily.
* 55 FBI Evidence Response Teams worked the site -- over 1,000 agents -- plus FBI medics, safety officers, and other specialists.
* New York Evidence Response Team members worked over 8,000 hours at the site, at the morgue, and at Ground Zero -- and one, Special Agent Gerry Fornino, personally worked over 1,818 hours at the vehicle recovery operation with the Port Authority and NYPD.
Source: http://www.fbi.gov/page2/nov03/nyhs112703.htm

***************

Number of U.S. Customs Agency Volunteers working search and inspection at Fresh Kills Landfill: at least 193
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/CustomsToday/2002/March/custoday_location.xml

***************

from RECOVERY: THE WORLD TRADE CENTER RECOVERY OPERATION AT FRESH KILLS (PDF of Traveling Exhibit)

The exhibition chronicles the quiet history after September 11. The days at Fresh Kills ended as discreetly as they began. Debris removal at Ground Zero ended on June 28, 2002. The sorting at Fresh Kills officially ended on July 2 at 1:02 p.m. Recovered from the 1.8 million tons of material inspected: 4,257 human remains helped bring closure to hundreds of families; 54,000 personal items and 4,000 photographs, many returned to their owners; 1,358 personal and departmental vehicles; and thousands of tons of steel. The numbers are difficult to process, but these images begin to tell the story. The Police, FBI, City Sanitation workers, and the thousands who worked there made history “on the hill.” The hill that overlooks downtown Manhattan where the towers once stood is now changed forever – Mark Schaming Director of Exhibitions and Programs New York State Museum

Above exhibit thanks to these organizations working at Fresh Kills:

The New York Police Department
The New York Fire Department
The Federal Bureau of Investigation
New York City Department of Sanitation
Phillips and Jordan, Inc.
The Fresh Kills Incident Commander,
NYPD Inspector James Luongo, Lt. Bruce Bovino,
FBI Special Agents Richard Marx and Gerry Fornino,
the FBI Evidence Response Team, the NYPD Recovery
Team, the Port Authority Police Department, NYC
Department of Sanitation, and all the people from the
World Trade Center Recovery Operation

***************

U.S. Army Corps of Engineers receives Fresh Kills debris management contract
http://sept11.wasteage.com/ar/waste_fema_assigns_fresh/index.htm

***************

400 FBI Agents working at Fresh Kills (and some taking souvenirs?)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4373627/

***************

As you know, on September 11, 2001, Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and New York Police Department (NYPD) detectives were dispatched to the Fresh Kills Landfill on Staten Island, New York to process the debris of the World Trade Center (WTC) for physical evidence and human remains. This recovery effort, the largest and longest in the FBI's history, resulted in 1.8 million tons of debris being collected and examined by twenty-four federal, state, and local agencies. On September 12, 2001, I was designated to lead and coordinate this effort as an Evidence Response Team (ERT) Leader. This operation ceased in August 2002. –Richard B. Marx, Special Agent http://www.ussartf.org/news.htm

***************

Engineer salvage yard visits for steel inspection
As of March 15, 2002, a total of 131 engineer visits had been made to these yards on 57 separate days. An engineer visit typically ranged from a few hours to an entire day at a salvage yard. The duration of the visits, number of visits per yard, and the dates the yards were visited varied, depending on the volume of steel being processed, the potential significance of the steel pieces being found, salvage yard activities, weather, and other factors. Sixty-two engineer trips were made to Jersey City, 38 to Keasbey, 15 to Fresh Kills, and 16 to Newark. Three trips made in October included several ASCE engineers. Eleven engineer trips were made in November, 41 in December, 43 in January, 28 in February, and 5 through March 15, 2002.

Source: FEMA WTC report, Appendix D

***************

Pentagon Overview
Local responders arrived immediately, and other agencies, including five USAR teams, came to assist. The Arlington County Fire Department set up an incident command system and coordinated the emergency response. The rescue and recovery phase lasted 11 days, after which Arlington County transferred responsibility for the incident and site management to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), on September 21. No esponders were killed. Demolition of the damaged area began on October 18 and was completed on November 29. Reconstruction of the damaged area is expected to be completed in Spring 2003. http://www.rand.org/pubs/conf_proceedings/CF176/CF176.ch2.pdf


Good study of response and (partial) list of organizations responding to the Pentagon attack

Observing and Documenting the Inter-Organizational Response to the September 11th Attack on The Pentagon
http://www.gwu.edu/~icdrm/publications/nsf911/response.html


***************

October 1, 2001
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES personnel assigned
Source: http://www.emergency.com/2001/11sep01-terror.htm

TOTAL PERSONNEL

Emergency Operations Center (EOC): Rockville, MD 20

New York City 594

FEMA Response Headquarters: Washington, DC 11
FBI Command: Washington, DC 2
Regional Operations Centers (I, II, III, IV): Various 9

TOTAL 636


New York City

PERSONNEL: NEW YORK CITY

Management Support Team (MST): Sheraton Hotel 49
DMAT: TOTAL 172
DMAT: Four Clinics 102
DMAT: Management and Support 40|
DMAT: Staging 30
Presbyterian Hospital Burn Center 14
Centers for Disease Control (CDC)- Epidemiologists 40
CDC, Other 16
Veterinary Medical Assistance Team (VMAT) 14
DMORT: TOTAL 260
DMORT: New York City Medical Examiners Office (NYCME) 146
DMORT: Management & Marriott 9
DMORT: Family Assistance Center (United and American Airlines Site) 1
DMORT: FAC (Pier 94) 5
DMORT: Ground Zero 15
DMORT: Landfill 6
DMORT: Processing Data Information - Pier 92 56
Disaster Portable Morgue Unit (DPMU) Staff 6
Disaster Portable Morgue Unit (DPMU) DMORT West Reception Area 16
DMORT: Staging N/A
CCRF Mental Health 7
Mental Health 9
Pharmacists Staging 2
Specialty: CCRF Forensic Dentists 6
Department of Veterans' Affairs: Various Other Assistance and Support 5

TOTAL 594

Clinical Data (Past 24 hours / Total)

Human Patients Treated 161 / 5,735

Animal Patients Treated by VMAT for acute symptoms 14 / 893

Recovered Remains as reported by the State of New York: 0800 hours, September 29

Remains 4,735

Identified 214

The Management Support Team (MST) established in New York City is located at a hotel at 7th Avenue and 52nd Street. There continues to be daily-in and out-processing of personnel. The next rotation of DMAT teams is in process.

Inter-Departmental Cooperation

The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), Office of Emergency Preparedness (OEP), continues to work in cooperation with their partners in the National Disaster Medical System (NDMS). The Department of Veterans' Affairs (VA) is providing support to the city through its New York City VA health care facilities as well as through Emergency Support Function (ESF) #8, Health and Medical Services, of the Federal Response Plan.

Under the Federal Response Plan, through ESF # 8, VA has deployed 2 burn nurses to the Cornell University Medical Center Burn Unit; a radiology technician to the scene of the plane crash in Western Pennsylvania; and an emergency manager to the USPHS/EOC. Two emergency managers are on duty at the ESF 8 Management Support Team (MST) in NYC. A clinical psychologist at the Oklahoma City VAMC was requested by the American Red Cross National Headquarters to travel to Washington, DC and provide consultation on CISM.

In the aftermath of the attack, the VA Manhattan received and treated a total of 76 victims with an additional 17 treated at the VAMC Brooklyn, three at the VAMC in the Bronx and two at the Northport VAMC for a total of 98. VA received two additional mission assignments from the HHS/United State Public Health Service (USPHS), lead agent for ESF # 8 (Health and Medical Services) for the Federal Response Plan (FRP). One stress counselor is assisting the deployed mental health teams to provide support to federal workers in New York City (NYC).

Five (5) VA emergency managers began working with the Management Support Team (MST) in NYC on Monday, October 1, 2001. The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) provides leadership in all aspects of the rescue mission and liaison officers. The Department of Defense deployed the USNS Comfort to New York City. The 250-bed USNS Comfort arrived at Pier 92 on September 14 and departed on October 1, 2001. It was used as a rest facility for responders and served hundreds of rescue personnel daily.

DoD provided liaison officers to several federal entities agencies and departments.

Epidemiologists

The epidemiologists from CDC were deployed by request of Secretary Thompson and are assisting the New York City Department of Health, to determine any patterns of later developing ailments caused by the terrorist attacks. They are taking daily data analyses at New York City hospitals. Over 35,000 medical charts have been reviewed. Staffing levels and schedules will be developed to accommodate the times of greatest need in the hospitals. Ongoing surveillance both in New York City and Washington, DC, has not indicated any anomalies to date.

Most of the Urban Search and Rescue (USAR) teams have been deactivated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). Currently only one USAR team remains in New York City. DMAT and DMORT will assess how that decision impacts on their missions in New York City over the coming days.

DMAT

There are currently four operating clinics all within two blocks of the World Trade Center (WTC) site. They are operational in the four sectors around ground zero. DMAT rotations are progressing according to schedule.

Fourteen burn nurses are deployed to provide staffing relief for critical patients at the NY Presbyterian Hospital Burn Center. A plan for demobilization of the nurses at the end of the mission is being developed. The demobilization is expected to occur on October 14.

According to the New York State Department of Health sufficient quantities of vaccines are available and air and water quality have been tested and meet or surpass existing standards.

DMORT

DMORT personnel are on duty at the World Trade Center site, the City Medical Examiner's Office, the United Airlines and American Airlines Family Assistance Center (FAC), and the FAC at Pier 94 and the Staten Island Landfill. DMORT-FAC personnel are currently conducting family interviews, collecting records, and performing other administrative duties.

DMORT personnel are in the process of expanding the site at the Landfill on Staten Island. Much of the material from the World Trade Center site is being shipped there. DMORT personnel are on site to review the wreckage being brought to the site.

DMORT personnel are providing 24-hour support to the city Medical Examiner. Their duties include: data entry, morgue activities, photo/scanning, supervisors, and liaison officers. Operations in the Medical Examiner's Office will increase as the recovery continues.

USNS Comfort

The 250-bed USNS Comfort left for their homeport on October 1, 2001.

VMAT

Veterinary Medical Assistance Teams are operating veterinary clinics in New York City. They are caring for the search dogs assisting with the search and recovery mission. They are also providing care for the federal search and recovery dogs and to non-federal search dogs on site. VMAT personnel at Staten Island have been reassigned temporarily until after a meeting with the New York City Office of Emergency Management on the status of resuming that operation.

NMRT-E

The National Medical Response Team-Weapons of Mass Destruction- EAST (NMRT-E) is a specialized response force sponsored by the U.S. Public Health Service that is designed to provide medical care following a nuclear, biological, and/or chemical incident. They are specially trained to work towards decontamination of sites, and can provide medical care in contaminated areas if needed. As of September 17, NMRT-E, in New York City, was deactivated and returned to North Carolina.

Mental Health

Ten Federal mental health personnel are on site serving the mental health needs of federal responders (SAMHSA, CCRF, and VA personnel). Mental Health Assistance Team (MHAT) personnel have established a plan to rotate in new personnel and demobilize existing personnel. Mental health needs will be continually assessed throughout the deployment.

Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) personnel are currently coordinating operations at four sites for mental health counseling. They continue to provide mental health care to many of the responders every day. Mental health personnel also provide an orientation as well as debriefing for DMAT and DMORT members arriving and department New > York City. Over the past 24 hours 70 mental health contacts were made, bringing the mission total to 2,553 contacts.

PENNSYLVANIA

There has been no change since SITREP #19.

As of September 26, the DMORT operation in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, has been completed. Most DMORT personnel have returned home, some have been redeployed to New York City as needed. Prior to closing operations, a 100% record audit was completed. Victim DNA is being processed to confirm identities.

THE PENTAGON

There has been no change since SITREP #19

Immediately following the incident, the NMRT-DC was deployed to the Pentagon to assist with the recovery mission. The 36-member NMRT was assisting with washing-down workers returning from the site. They were working 2-12 hour shifts of 18 people, washing down approximately between 800-1,000 workers every 24 hours. In addition, NMRT washed down equipment and dogs leaving the site. The NMRT-DC and MST were demobilized on September 26, 2001.
 
Last edited:
Sometimes Gravy scares me.

Gravy, if 5 years ago someone told you that one of the greatest tragedies in US history would become an ongoing focalpoint in your life, causing you to read thousands of pages of reports, write essays, appear on television and face idiots on a regular basis, would you have believed them?
 
Wow. All these people are part of the conspiracy? I never knew it ran this deep.
 
Sometimes Gravy scares me.

Gravy, if 5 years ago someone told you that one of the greatest tragedies in US history would become an ongoing focalpoint in your life, causing you to read thousands of pages of reports, write essays, appear on television and face idiots on a regular basis, would you have believed them?
If someone had told me when I registered here in March that I would become heavily involved in refuting 9/11 conspiracy theories (which I didn't know existed), I would have suggested that they have their psychic abilities overhauled, because there was absolutely zero chance of that happening. The idea would have been laughable.
 
If someone had told me when I registered here in March that I would become heavily involved in refuting 9/11 conspiracy theories (which I didn't know existed), I would have suggested that they have their psychic abilities overhauled, because there was absolutely zero chance of that happening. The idea would have been laughable.


Many years in the future, old dying CTers will fondly tell younger bright-eyed CTers of the golden age, before the coming of Gravy, and the great darkness.

-Gumboot
 
Many years in the future, old dying CTers will fondly tell younger bright-eyed CTers of the golden age, before the coming of Gravy, and the great darkness.

-Gumboot
I am merely a vessel filled with light from the Great Mike.
 
Don't forget GCHQ, Mosaad, Guojia Anquan Bu, Sluzhba Vneshney Razvedki, and NSA (but then again, maybe they were all in on it. :eek: )
 
Like I said back at LCF, if I were a woman, I'd marry Mark Roberts.

I can't believe that thread hasn't been deleted yet.
 
Everything I ever needed to know about 9-11

I'm stunned. Thanks, Gravy, that should be more than enough. Your knowledge of the subject matter is truly outstanding.

When I have something worth looking at I'll post a link for comments - I should be able to post URLs by then.

Dave
 

Back
Top Bottom