• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Religious Right vs. Religious Left

Upchurch

Papa Funkosophy
Joined
May 10, 2002
Messages
34,265
Location
St. Louis, MO
I've been a Unitarian for just about three years now. In that time, I have defended them a lot on this board that they're not all the crazy woo-woo people that is the stereotype. And I stand by that, they are not all the crazy woo-woo people.

But, this last week, I attended the UUA's General Assembly and I have a much better idea where the stereotype comes from. Outside of the official UUA business, there was an exhibition hall and a variety of talks/classes/lectures. I'd say roughly half of exhibits and talks were of a far-out-wooish nature. The other half of the exhibits were of a social justice/political activism nature. The other half of the talks were more pedestrian things like building management, congregational growth and, what I found very interesting, were discussions that focused on the religious right's dominance in the perception of religion in America.

The argument was that the perception of religion in America is based almost entirely on a small, but highly organized and vocal, religiously fundamentalist fringe. This is why, the argument goes, that news sources turn to people like Pat Buchanan and Jerry Falwell as religious authorities even though they are not representative of the majority of America's religious communities. This is also why issues like a pro-separation of church and state stance are seen as secular despite the fact that quite a few religious leaders support and lobby for them.

I have no idea what the actual statistical break down of US religions are in terms of left, right, and center. I would like to believe that the majority of Americans are not fundamentalist nut cases and that the above argument has some validity.

Having said all that, I will grant you that there were definitely some religious nut cases on the left side as well. I helped work tech on a plenary session where they argued for an hour whether or not their conscience statement should state, in effect, that we think that global warming is bad, very bad, or very very very very bad. :rolleyes: But the majority of the ministers I met seemed to have a level head on their shoulders.
 
Religeon has little to do, or should have little to do with politics. Left, Right, or center you will see the faithful.

Those that you see these days are the most vocal and recently associate themselves with the political right, but this isn't always the case.

Those leaning left usually have more social considerations and those in the religeous community would be more likely to fall under this umbrella. If you did a poll, you probably would find that there are a lot of faithful leaning left. It wasn't until Bush's compaign, that we saw the nutjobs come out of the woodwork claiming that jesus would vote republican, but this doesn't hold water when you look at the voting record of replublican representatives.
 
I helped work tech on a plenary session where they argued for an hour whether or not their conscience statement should state, in effect, that we think that global warming is bad, very bad, or very very very very bad.

Did they reach a consenus?
 
According to the Barna Institute, 9% of the US population is made up of evangelical Christians. Fundamentalists are normally considered a fringe group of evangelicals. Do with that number what you will, I got it here:

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=Topic&TopicID=17

I agree that religion in the US has been hijacked by these vocal extremists. On the one hand, it seems like they are being given power by media exposure. On the other hand, many of their ideas are so completely assinine that I can't help hoping that the media exposure will backfire on them.
 
According to the Barna Institute, 9% of the US population is made up of evangelical Christians. Fundamentalists are normally considered a fringe group of evangelicals. Do with that number what you will, I got it here:

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=Topic&TopicID=17
If correct, that would support the argument I was hearing.

I agree that religion in the US has been hijacked by these vocal extremists. On the one hand, it seems like they are being given power by media exposure. On the other hand, many of their ideas are so completely assinine that I can't help hoping that the media exposure will backfire on them.
More evidence of the liberal mainstream media, ya think?
 
I really think the religious right have given Christianity a bad name. It really is kind of rediculous however. Jesus would so be a left wing liberal.
 
Disconnect

What bothers me about this issue is the disconnect between religious belief and political activism. I've known various people who claimed that their political beliefs were based on their religion, but despite having the same religion, had diametricaly opposite politics.
A good example can be seen in Catholic politics in the 1970's and '80's. In Central and South America we had priests and nuns preaching "Revolution Theology", advocating Marxist revolution. Yet their boss in Rome was a leader of the peaceful revolution to free Eastern Europe and overthrough the Soviet Union. In both cases they presented doctrinal reasons why a good Catholic ought to agree with their politics.
Other Christian denominations, and other religions as well, present examples.
It seems that a persons religion does not affect the quality of their political belief, but may affect the intensity of their actions.

Robert Klaus
 
I have no idea what the actual statistical break down of US religions are in terms of left, right, and center. I would like to believe that the majority of Americans are not fundamentalist nut cases and that the above argument has some validity.

If it makes you feel better, Upchurch, even when I was a fundamentalist nutcase, I wasn't a fundamentalist nutcase. :)

Marc
 
I really think the religious right have given Christianity a bad name. It really is kind of rediculous however. Jesus would so be a left wing liberal.

On some things, certainly. But he's definitely conservative on a few things, as well. "Think not that I've come to abolish the law, but to fulfil it," comes to mind, as well as "Heaven and earth will pass away but not one jot nor tiddle of the law"

Actually, now that I think of it, the gospels almost seem to be talking about two different guys. One whose primary goal was making people more righteous ("Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven") and one whose goal was to shake up the establishment ("It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick").

It's pretty confusing.

Marc (Note: All of the quotes above are paraphrases from memory. Feel free to correct me on any errors with them).
 
According to the Barna Institute, 9% of the US population is made up of evangelical Christians.

There's "evangelical" and "evangelical." I almost became a pastor in the Wisconsin Synod Evangelical Lutheran Church. What "evangelical" meant, in this case, was that they actively established missions, both foreign and domestic (with the emphasis on equatorial Africa). No ranting on street corners or "witnessing," just go to church on Sunday, stay awake during the sermon, put something in the plate and do it all again next week.

Fundamentalists are normally considered a fringe group of evangelicals.

Again, my church was also fundamentalist. So much so that Luther was quoted almost as much as the Bible. I noticed, early on, however, that I had to go to outside sources to learn of Luther's diatribe about Jews, but that's another story.

Anyway, the church I grew up in was both evangelical and fundamentalist. It was also completely mainstream, and was precisely what you think of when you watch "Leave It to Beaver."
 
According to the Barna Institute, 9% of the US population is made up of evangelical Christians. Fundamentalists are normally considered a fringe group of evangelicals. Do with that number what you will, I got it here:

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=Topic&TopicID=17

I agree that religion in the US has been hijacked by these vocal extremists. On the one hand, it seems like they are being given power by media exposure. On the other hand, many of their ideas are so completely assinine that I can't help hoping that the media exposure will backfire on them.

I think the first flaw, here, is assuming that radicalism is isolated to the category 'evangelists'. This group doesn't include Baptists, which includes the likes of Robertson, Oral Roberts, Jim Baker (the largest three protestant congregations in the US), nor does it include the Catholics (40% of the US - officially opposed, for example, to homosexuality, stem cell research, equality for women, and birth control), nor does it include Mormons ("screw the government"), Pentacostals ("God rewards you with money - rich equals worthy"), Moonies, or JWs. All *very* conservative organizations.

"evangelical" is akward, since all Christians are called to evangelize, but only a few named their sect after the act.




The second flaw is underestimating the individual power of these organizations: they are not just getting dispropotionate media attention.

They *own and operate* huge chunks of the media. I'm thinking specifically of Pat Robertson and the Moonies, who own media conglomerates.




However, what their *membership* does in the privacy of a voting booth is difficult to establish factually.
 
I think the first flaw, here, is assuming that radicalism is isolated to the category 'evangelists'. This group doesn't include Baptists, which includes the likes of Robertson, Oral Roberts, Jim Baker (the largest three protestant congregations in the US), nor does it include the Catholics (40% of the US - officially opposed, for example, to homosexuality, stem cell research, equality for women, and birth control), nor does it include Mormons ("screw the government"), Pentacostals ("God rewards you with money - rich equals worthy"), Moonies, or JWs. All *very* conservative organizations.

"evangelical" is akward, since all Christians are called to evangelize, but only a few named their sect after the act.

Evangelical is a formal term related to a specific wing of Christianity. It has nothing to do with the fact that they evangelize. It basically refers to "born again" Christians.

No one is assuming that only evangelicals can be extremists. As you say, there are plenty of extremist Catholics.

However Baptists, and the celebrity Christians you named above, most certainly ARE evangelicals.

While Mormons consider themselves to be Christians, I know of no other group that considers them to be so. Most Christian churches consider the Mormons to be a non-Christian cult.
 
On some things, certainly. But he's definitely conservative on a few things, as well. "Think not that I've come to abolish the law, but to fulfil it," comes to mind, as well as "Heaven and earth will pass away but not one jot nor tiddle of the law".
It's only Christian Reconstructionists who take such Dominical statements as meaning that we are still bound by Mosaic law.

This was definitely not what St Paul thought : "We are not under the law, but under grace".

For the orthodox theological view of what Jesus meant by "fulfilling" the law, here's an explanation from a former Reconstructionist.
 
Evangelical is a formal term related to a specific wing of Christianity. It has nothing to do with the fact that they evangelize. It basically refers to "born again" Christians.

No one is assuming that only evangelicals can be extremists. As you say, there are plenty of extremist Catholics.

However Baptists, and the celebrity Christians you named above, most certainly ARE evangelicals.

Then we're quibbling. If "evangelicals" should include "baptists", then the 9% stated above is botched. Baptists make up about 20% of the US population. They are the second-largest denomination, after Catholics. reference: Wikipedia (note: as do all theologists I'm aware of, they classify Mormons as a subvariety of Christian)

Usually, the classification's the other way around: some Baptist congregations consider themselves evangelical; others don't. For example, my wife's denomination is Southern Baptist, of the "Evangelical Free" subdenomination.



I think a more reliable way to get a grasp on the penetration of radicalism in the US is to construct a profile of a 'racical', and review surveys with specific questions, rather than ask what church they would attend, if they decided to go once in awhile. Catholics, for example, officially reject contraception, but 83% of US Catholics think the Pope is wrong on this issue.
 
It's only Christian Reconstructionists who take such Dominical statements as meaning that we are still bound by Mosaic law.

This was definitely not what St Paul thought : "We are not under the law, but under grace".

For the orthodox theological view of what Jesus meant by "fulfilling" the law, here's an explanation from a former Reconstructionist.

Thanks for the link, Doc :) I've perused it, and when I have a chance, I'll go through it more thoroughly.

Marc
 

Back
Top Bottom