Religion of Peace strikes again

[zenith-nadir]

Explosions rock Jordan hotels - 3:51 p.m. ET Nov. 9, 2005

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9979747/

MMAN, Jordan - Suicide bombers on Wednesday attacked three hotels frequented by Westerners, and at least 18 people were killed and 120 wounded, police said.

Maj. Bashir al-Da’aja said officials believe all three blasts were carried out by suicide bombers.

Please... spare me the "you're a racist" lambasting. New York, France, London, Madrid, Iraq, Israel, Bali, Australia, Africa, Egypt...and now, Jordan.

 

[zenith-nadir]

23 dead now...120 wounded...and counting...

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/11/09/D8DP6MS84.html

 

[Hutch]

Please... spare me the "you're a racist" lambasting. New York, France, London, Madrid, Iraq, Israel, Bali, Australia, Africa, Egypt...and now, Jordan.

Well, title your OP "Religion of Peace" (which in ZN-speak means Islam) and you're talking about 1,000,000,000 people in 140 countries sucide bombing hotels.

If you're title was "Fundy Muslim Terrorist ◊◊◊◊-heads Murder again", I might pick at your vulgarity but could not argue about your accuracy.

For your consideration.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Well, title your OP "Religion of Peace" (which in ZN-speak means Islam) and you're talking about 1,000,000,000 people in 140 countries sucide bombing hotels.

If you're title was "Fundy Muslim Terrorist ◊◊◊◊-heads Murder again", I might pick at your vulgarity but could not argue about your accuracy.

For your consideration.

For your consideration.

• Abu Nidal organization
• Abu Sayyaf Group
• Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade
• Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya
• Al-Jihad
• Al-Qa'ida
• Ansar al-Islam
• Asbat al-Ansar
• Armed Islamic Group
• Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine
• Egyptian Brotherhood
• Fatah - Revolutionary Council
• Fatah Tanzim
• Force 17
• Hamas
• Harakat ul-Mujahidin
• Hizballah
• Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan
• Jaish-e-Mohammed
• Jihad Group
• Lashkar-e-Tayyiba
• Libyan Islamic Fighting Group
• Martyrs of al-Aqsa
• Mujahedin-e Khalq
• PLO
• Palestinian Islamic Jihad
• Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine
• Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command
• Special Purpose Islamic Regiment

 

[fishbob]

For your consideration.
[list of violent Islamist organizations with political goals]

Please... spare me the "you're a racist" lambasting.

Why?

 

[zenith-nadir]

Why?

You're right fishbob. Todays bombing in Jordan of civilian targets was an anomaly. All those groups I listed above - some of which have exsisted since the 60's - are anomalies. Sponsors of terror Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Lybia, formerly Iraq... anomalies. The riots in France...an anomaly. The bombings in London, Madrid, Bali, Africa, Beslan, Israel...anomalies. 9-11...an anomaly. Beheadings, suicide bombings...anomalies.

 

[Hutch]

A nice attempt at trying a diversion. Lets try it one more time.

Religion of Peace = Islam + 1,000,000,000 practitioners = total membership of Terrorist organizations ZN lists (or at least they are all fellow travellers).

At least, that appears to be what you are arguing based on your defense of your Title to this thread. If that is not what the Title of your Thread meant, then I take it you accept my critique in my previous post as my alternative title being the more accurate.

Press on.

 

[Ian Osborne]

ZN, do describe IRA bombers as Christian terrorists? Or the Zionists of the 1940s as Jewish Terrorists? If not, why is only Islam defined by its extremist element?

 

[zenith-nadir]

ZN, do describe IRA bombers as Christian terrorists? Or the Zionists of the 1940s as Jewish Terrorists? If not, why is only Islam defined by its extremist element?

You're right Ian. Todays bombing in Jordan of civilian targets was an anomaly. Rafik Hariri's assasination last February in Lebanon...an anomaly. Daniel Pearl's beheading in Pakistan...an anomoly. The Bali bombings... an anomoly. The 29 terror groups I listed above - some of which have exsisted since the 60's - are all anomalies. Sponsors of terror such as Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Lybia, formerly Iraq... anomalies. The riots in France...an anomaly. The bombings in London, Madrid, Africa, Beslan, Israel...anomalies. 9-11...an anomaly. Beheadings, suicide bombings, truck bombs, car bombs ...anomalies.

Now that's all out of the way lets talk about the IRA, the Irgun and Stern Gang.

A nice attempt at trying a diversion. Lets try it one more time.

I am not "diverting". I am agreeing with you...everything I listed above is an anomoly and it was unfair of me to connect all those people and all those terror events and all those countries and all those terror groups with Islam. Forgive me....what was I thinking.

 

[Mycroft]

Religion of Peace = Islam + 1,000,000,000 practitioners = total membership of Terrorist organizations ZN lists (or at least they are all fellow travellers).

It seems to me that when the religion being criticized is Christianity that no special effort is made to distinguish among all the various sects that may or may not believe any one specific piece of lunacy.

We all understand that not every Muslim supports this murderous violence, in fact only a tiny portion do, however those that do are widespread throughout the globe and are at the forefront of virtually every violent confrontation there is.

Religion of peace? So long as think kind of violence is done in the name of Islam, we are allowed this irony.

We could say "Religion of pieces." You know, pieces of people.

 

[Hutch]

It seems to me that when the religion being criticized is Christianity that no special effort is made to distinguish among all the various sects that may or may not believe any one specific piece of lunacy.

Strawman. Stay on topic.

We all understand that not every Muslim supports this murderous violence, in fact only a tiny portion do, however those that do are widespread throughout the globe and are at the forefront of virtually every violent confrontation there is.

Italics and Bolding mine. And there we agree. Which is the only point I was trying to make.

As for the second part. Tamil Tigers-Hindu. Serbian/Croation nationists-Orthodox Christians. Nepal-Maoists. Not virtually every.

Religion of peace? So long as this kind of violence is done in the name of Islam, we are allowed this irony.

I disagree. All I ask it that you call stinkin' murdering Muslim terrorists stinkin' murdering muslim terrorists, and not take a snide attitude.

We could say "Religion of pieces." You know, pieces of people.

And points scored like that is one reason my formerly high opinion of your debating and argumentative skills has slid nearly to the bottom of the scale.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Religion of peace? So long as think kind of violence is done in the name of Islam, we are allowed this irony.

I respectfully disagree Mycroft. And here's why;

The assassination of Senator Robert F. Kennedy...an anomoly. The execution of United States Ambassador Cleo Noel Jr., Chargé d'Affaires George Curtis Moore...an anomoly. Munich Olympic massacre...an anomoly. Pan Am Flight 110..an anomoly. TWA Flight 841...an anomoly. Air France Flight 139...an anomoly. The seizure of three buildings in Washington D.C. by several Hanafi Muslims in '77 where Marion Barry was shot...an anomoly. Iranian Embassy siege in '80...an anomoly. Attack and bombing of Goldenberg restaurant in Paris in '82...an anomoly. U.S. Embassy Bombing in Beirut, Lebanon...an anomoly. Marine Barracks Bombing in Beirut...an anomoly. Achille Lauro cruise ship hijacking...an anomoly. EgyptAir Flight 648...an anomoly. Rome and Vienna Airport Attacks....an anomoly. TWA Flight 840 attack at Athens airport...an anomoly. The La Belle discotheque in Berlin bombing...an anomoly. The Israeli Embassy bombing in Buenos Aires, Argentina...an anomoly. '93 CIA stoplight shooting...an anomoly. '93 World Trade Center bombing....an anomoly. The bombing of an Alas Chiricanas flight in Panama...an anomoly. Bombing of Egyptian Embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan...an anomoly Khobar Towers bombing...an anomoly. Empire State Building observation deck shooting...an anomoly. Luxor Massacre in '97...an anomoly.

I'm still a few years from 9-11 should I continue? Naaaaaa...my fingers hurt....I think I made my point that it was unfair of me to link Islam to terrorism.

 

[Elind]

Well, title your OP "Religion of Peace" (which in ZN-speak means Islam) and you're talking about 1,000,000,000 people in 140 countries sucide bombing hotels.

If you're title was "Fundy Muslim Terrorist ◊◊◊◊-heads Murder again", I might pick at your vulgarity but could not argue about your accuracy.

For your consideration.

I think he is making the point that there appears to be a relationship with one particular religion and the majority of indistcriminate terrorist organizations (maybe "indiscriminate" is redundant?).

The fact that there may be 1 billion nominal members of that religion, and that most are decent people, is as irrelevant to the facts as the majority was when they once thought the world was flat.

Your focus is on political correctness, not facts. Do you have any other arguments for our consideration?

 

[CBL4]

Originally posted by ZN
Marine Barracks Bombing in Beirut

[Pet Peeve]This one is different from the others. Marines were the target, not civilians. The Marines had been taking sides in a civil war which made them legitimate targets. I do realize the people who killed them were the people who invited them but they were soldiers not civilians.[/Pet Peeve]

CBL

 

[Mark]

Neither Christianity nor Islam are "Religions of Peace." They are both---based on their own "holy" books and history---murderous religions that think nothing of slaughtering anyone who gets in their way. Sometimes just for the fun of it. Just ask the thousands of women who were dragged from their homes and burned alive in the Middle Ages by Christians. Or ask Hypatia, the last librarian of the Great Library at Alexandria. A gang of Christians strung her up, flayed her alive with abalone shells, and destroyed the library; their leader was (and is) considered a Saint.

 

[fishbob]

I think he is making the point that there appears to be a relationship with one particular religion and the majority of indistcriminate terrorist organizations (maybe "indiscriminate" is redundant?).

He appears to be claiming that there is more substantial than a simple relationship between Islam and violent terrorist organizations, without anything more substantial than a list of incidents - incidents which involve fewer than 1/10th of 1% of this particular group.

Is there anything else that ties these incidents together - a statement from the president of the muslims, a recently discovered secret plan to take over the world, anything? A list of incidents supports the idea, but is not enough by itself to be convincing.

 

[Hutch]

I think he is making the point that there appears to be a relationship with one particular religion and the majority of indistcriminate terrorist organizations (maybe "indiscriminate" is redundant?).

Maybe. It is a possibility. But I've been reading ZN's posts for as long as he's been on the board and I think he knew exactly what he was doing--IMHO, as always.

The fact that there may be 1 billion nominal members of that religion, and that most are decent people, is as irrelevant to the facts as the majority was when they once thought the world was flat.

What? Flat Earth??? The title says Religion of Peace strikes again. Do you disagree on exactly what religion he was speaking of? (not the one with the Prince of Peace, BTW). That brings the entire spectrum of Islam into play. Not the terrorists ZN rightly notes or the loathsome organizations they belong too--the whole of the faithful. All I want is that he be more accurate in what he is denouncing.

Your focus is on political correctness, not facts. Do you have any other arguments for our consideration?

Me politically correct ...I do promise that I will consider your arguments as soon as you make a congent one--take lessons from BPSCG or Randfan--they at least know How to argue.

 

[Bjorn]

We all understand that not every Muslim supports this murderous violence, in fact only a tiny portion do

there may be 1 billion nominal members of that religion, and that most are decent people

Maybe Z-N should post something like that. He doesn't.

 

[Elind]

Maybe Z-N should post something like that. He doesn't.

I have read a lot of what he posts. Obviously he's a newsman with a mission to defend one side in a conflict, but I have never had the impression that he doesn't think there are many decent Muslims, just that they don't have a clear voice for whatever reasons.

 

[gnome]

Let's say hypothetically, everyone agress with ZN that "religion of peace" is a poor descriptor of islam. What then? It sounds like an attempt to justify casting suspicion on someone because they are islamic, without knowing anything more about them. Is that the intent?