Record Heat in UK

[newyorkguy]

I know ISF has many British members and I was hoping to find some commentary here about this week's record heat in the UK, France and other parts of Europe. Here in the US, NBC News reported:

The United Kingdom recorded its hottest day ever on Thursday in a heat wave that also shattered temperature records in France, the Netherlands and Belgium. Temperatures reached 101.66 degrees [**] at Cambridge University Botanic Garden, according to new provisional data released by the U.K.'s Met Office on Friday. If verified, it would make Thursday the hottest day ever on record in the country. The country's previous record high of 101.3 degrees was set in 2003. Link

Paris got to 105°F, Gilze-Rijen airbase in the Netherlands recorded a high of 104°F, while in Belgium "the Kleine Brogel air base, roughly 55 miles east of Antwerp, broke national records reaching 105°F." The past week the New York City area had a heat wave, with people wilting as the mercury climbed to the high 90s but this puts us to shame.

What I'm wondering about, is Boris Johnson a climate change denier? Climate change as the earth warms, does this engender the same kind of controversy in Britain and other parts of Europe as it does in the US?

Where is this headed?

[** - Bear with me please, Yanks still express temps in Fahrenheit.]

 

[Mikemcc]

Not as much controversy across here, especially in mainland Europe. Even our 'right wing' conservatives do tend to be a bit more liberal than the right in the US. I think it may be due to the whole Evangelist thing going on across there. I tend to see that the more evangelical christians tilt more towards the extreme GOP representatives. I'm speaking from a fairly limited pool of experiences though. I used to travel a lot to the States, less so over the last three years.

 

[Samson]

Not as much controversy across here, especially in mainland Europe. Even our 'right wing' conservatives do tend to be a bit more liberal than the right in the US. I think it may be due to the whole Evangelist thing going on across there. I tend to see that the more evangelical christians tilt more towards the extreme GOP representatives. I'm speaking from a fairly limited pool of experiences though. I used to travel a lot to the States, less so over the last three years.

I imagine a study group in a million years trying to figure normal cycle or anthropogenic around our current epoch.
They will not see politics in the core sampling I imagine.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I know ISF has many British members and I was hoping to find some commentary here about this week's record heat in the UK, France and other parts of Europe. Here in the US, NBC News reported:


Paris got to 105°F, Gilze-Rijen airbase in the Netherlands recorded a high of 104°F, while in Belgium "the Kleine Brogel air base, roughly 55 miles east of Antwerp, broke national records reaching 105°F." The past week the New York City area had a heat wave, with people wilting as the mercury climbed to the high 90s but this puts us to shame.

What I'm wondering about, is Boris Johnson a climate change denier? Climate change as the earth warms, does this engender the same kind of controversy in Britain and other parts of Europe as it does in the US?

Where is this headed?

[** - Bear with me please, Yanks still express temps in Fahrenheit.]

While most people here accept Global Warming even on the right the right tend to pay it lip service and do nothing about it. Mind you Labour aren't much better.

The standard get out here seems to be 'yeah but its China and India doing it all and they ain't going to stop so what's the point of us doing anything?' - in other words good old fashioned English colonial blaming of Johnny Foreigner while arrogantly ***** up everything.

 

[newyorkguy]

About ten years ago while on a visit to Toronto I watched a CBC documentary about First Nation people. One segment was about the depletion of a traditional freshwater fishing ground. Scientists thought the problem was that the water temperature was gradually rising. This aggravated the food supply problem. Because already, with sea ice melting faster and earlier, polar bears were ranging further inland and interfering with caribou hunting.

After the show there was a news story about Canadian efforts to control climate change. Several people interviewed said they feared that until "our giant neighbor to the south" became sufficiently concerned Canada's efforts could have only a very small impact. The question was posed: Why do so many in the United States either disbelieve the climate change science or seem unconcerned? One answer (which rang very true with me) was: "Here in Canada we have seen dramatic evidence of warming. In the U.S. not so much. Until people in the U.S. see it -- not read about it or see it on TV but experience it personally -- they'll probably remain largely apathetic."

I'm wondering if the historically high temperatures in the UK and Europe this past week are changing peoples' attitudes? Creating some urgency on the political side?

 

[lomiller]

I know ISF has many British members and I was hoping to find some commentary here about this week's record heat in the UK, France and other parts of Europe. Here in the US, NBC News reported:


Paris got to 105°F, Gilze-Rijen airbase in the Netherlands recorded a high of 104°F, while in Belgium "the Kleine Brogel air base, roughly 55 miles east of Antwerp, broke national records reaching 105°F." The past week the New York City area had a heat wave, with people wilting as the mercury climbed to the high 90s but this puts us to shame.

What I'm wondering about, is Boris Johnson a climate change denier? Climate change as the earth warms, does this engender the same kind of controversy in Britain and other parts of Europe as it does in the US?

Where is this headed?

[** - Bear with me please, Yanks still express temps in Fahrenheit.]

We should probably wait for climate scientists to crunch the numbers before jumping to the conclusion that it’s attributable to climate change. Recent history suggests it will be attributable to climate change but it’s still best to wait for the actual science.


The problem with jumping to conclusions wrt to the UK is that it’s not clear if we should expect global warming to result in local warming or local cooling. Climate models predict an area of cooling in the north Atlantic and a similar feature is starting to show up in the temperature data. This could conceivable brink cooler not warmer temperatures to the UK.

 

[GlennB]

The problem with jumping to conclusions wrt to the UK is that it’s not clear if we should expect global warming to result in local warming or local cooling. Climate models predict an area of cooling in the north Atlantic and a similar feature is starting to show up in the temperature data. This could conceivable brink cooler not warmer temperatures to the UK.

Aye. We're a little further north than chilly Newfoundland, but are kept temperate by the 'Atlantic conveyor' ocean current. Cold melt water could scupper that, in the long term.

 

[arthwollipot]

For the rest of us, 101.6 in American degrees is 38.7. Which, yes, is pretty warm.

 

[The Don]

For the rest of us, 101.6 in American degrees is 38.7. Which, yes, is pretty warm.

And IMO it's exacerbated by the lack of planning and design for such temperatures. In the US it tends to be air-conditioning (not the most eco) in other countries, houses incorporate design features to mitigate high temperatures.

 

[caveman1917]

About ten years ago while on a visit to Toronto I watched a CBC documentary about First Nation people. One segment was about the depletion of a traditional freshwater fishing ground. Scientists thought the problem was that the water temperature was gradually rising. This aggravated the food supply problem. Because already, with sea ice melting faster and earlier, polar bears were ranging further inland and interfering with caribou hunting.

After the show there was a news story about Canadian efforts to control climate change. Several people interviewed said they feared that until "our giant neighbor to the south" became sufficiently concerned Canada's efforts could have only a very small impact. The question was posed: Why do so many in the United States either disbelieve the climate change science or seem unconcerned? One answer (which rang very true with me) was: "Here in Canada we have seen dramatic evidence of warming. In the U.S. not so much. Until people in the U.S. see it -- not read about it or see it on TV but experience it personally -- they'll probably remain largely apathetic."

I'm wondering if the historically high temperatures in the UK and Europe this past week are changing peoples' attitudes? Creating some urgency on the political side?

I think it's because of the huge influence of money (specifically large corporate sponsorship) on politics in the US, and it happens to be that climate change denial is a very profitable (to said corporations) idea.

 

[newyorkguy]

There is already great concern in the UK I discovered. Below is some information from an American climate change activist group called the Climate Reality Project.

In 2003, the UK and its neighbors in mainland Europe experienced one of the most significant heat waves in recorded history. Tens of thousands died – more than 2,000 in the UK alone – during what turned out to be its hottest summer in more than 500 years across the western part of the continent...So when climate scientists warn that “heatwaves in the UK like that experienced in 2003 are expected to become the norm in summer by the 2040s,” it’s not taken lightly.

“We are seeing a trend towards warmer winters and hotter summers, sea levels around our coast are rising by around 3mm a year, and there is emerging evidence of changing rainfall patterns,” the UK government said in a 2017 report to Parliament. Link

 

[lomiller]

And IMO it's exacerbated by the lack of planning and design for such temperatures. In the US it tends to be air-conditioning (not the most eco) in other countries, houses incorporate design features to mitigate high temperatures.

Most of the places in the US that regularly go to these temperatures are a lot dryer which helps a lot.

Temperatures as low as 35 Deg C (101 deg F) can be un-survivable to mammalian life at around 70% relative humidity because they can no longer cool their bodies via evaporation. There was no danger of this in the UK obviously; no place in the world reaches this combination of temperature and humidity today. By 2100 there is likely to be at least some placed on earth where this happens on a somewhat regular basis.

 

[dudalb]

I know it's a old cliché, but I suspect the humidity in the UK makes the heat a lot worse.
I would rather have 105 in a dry heat then 90 in a humid climate.
I was in the UK on vacation back in 2003 when they had a heat wave of over a 100 Fahrenite. It was horrid.
ANd I come froma city that has really hot summers.

 

[dudalb]

Most of the places in the US that regularly go to these temperatures are a lot dryer which helps a lot.

Temperatures as low as 35 Deg C (101 deg F) can be un-survivable to mammalian life at around 70% relative humidity because they can no longer cool their bodies via evaporation. There was no danger of this in the UK obviously; no place in the world reaches this combination of temperature and humidity today. By 2100 there is likely to be at least some placed on earth where this happens on a somewhat regular basis.

Yeah, I am in Sacramento;where you can expect 9 or 10 days of 100 plus tempertures a year...and this has been the case since they started keeping records in the mid 1800's. But it's a pretty dry heat.
In Phoenix Arizona,where they have a lot more plus 100 days and is the hottest climate of any major American city (being in the desert will do that), a popular T shirt shows too skeltons talking saying "But it's a Dry Heat"....

 

[Mikemcc]

I would also say that we are seeing denialist articles in 5he press. Booker died but I can't remember the last articles from Rose, Monckton or Ridley.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[quadraginta]

The problem with jumping to conclusions wrt to the UK is that it’s not clear if we should expect global warming to result in local warming or local cooling. Climate models predict an area of cooling in the north Atlantic and a similar feature is starting to show up in the temperature data. This could conceivable brink cooler not warmer temperatures to the UK.

Aye. We're a little further north than chilly Newfoundland, but are kept temperate by the 'Atlantic conveyor' ocean current. Cold melt water could scupper that, in the long term.

The either/or scenario which lomiller is discussing is somewhat deceptive. As you point out it could be both, one after the other.

But it isn't cold melt water which will be the problem. Not exactly, anyway. Most (I've read 90%) of the fresh water in the world is locked up in the southern ice cap. The Gulf Stream is a system which depends on a difference in salinity to drive it, and enough fresh water melted into the ocean could break that.

While extreme hot temperatures may be a problem now, if the Gulf Stream quits transporting warm water from the equatorial regions to the north Atlantic then the UK won't have to worry about that so much any more.

Glaciers? Mebbe not, but the UK's latitude will become a lot more obvious. North of much of Canada.

 

[quadraginta]

Most of the places in the US that regularly go to these temperatures are a lot dryer which helps a lot.

I'm not sure about "most". The South and Southeast tend to be a bit on the damp side.

Temperatures as low as 35 Deg C (101 deg F) can be un-survivable to mammalian life at around 70% relative humidity because they can no longer cool their bodies via evaporation. There was no danger of this in the UK obviously; no place in the world reaches this combination of temperature and humidity today. By 2100 there is likely to be at least some placed on earth where this happens on a somewhat regular basis.

We've had one of the hottest summers on record here in NC. Daytime highs for the past few weeks have pretty much stayed in or near the 90s, with mid-90s frequent. Meanwhile the humidity hovers right around that 70% you mention.

"Steam bath" is a term getting used a lot.

 

[lomiller]

The Gulf Stream is a system which depends on a difference in salinity to drive it, and enough fresh water melted into the ocean could break that.

Salinity changes where it subsides into the deep ocean, but the Gulf Stream itself is actually wind driven

I'm not sure about "most". The South and Southeast tend to be a bit on the damp side.



We've had one of the hottest summers on record here in NC. Daytime highs for the past few weeks have pretty much stayed in or near the 90s, with mid-90s frequent. Meanwhile the humidity hovers right around that 70% you mention.

"Steam bath" is a term getting used a lot.

Yes the US south can get these temperatures but not as often as you may think, especially in the more humid costal areas. Tampa Bay Florida has never recorded a 100+ Deg day, Savannah GA’s all time record is 100 Deg C Atlanta hits 100 once every few years so it’s still not a frequent occurrence. Heat index in London reached as high as 115 Deg F, which isn’t all that common even in the US south. A big difference is that no one in the UK has AC.

 

[Brainster]

Yeah, I am in Sacramento;where you can expect 9 or 10 days of 100 plus tempertures a year...and this has been the case since they started keeping records in the mid 1800's. But it's a pretty dry heat.
In Phoenix Arizona,where they have a lot more plus 100 days and is the hottest climate of any major American city (being in the desert will do that), a popular T shirt shows too skeltons talking saying "But it's a Dry Heat"....

I used to tell people to try sticking their head in the oven if they wanted to experience what a dry heat feels like. That said, we've actually had a pretty mild summer by Phoenix standards, June was gorgeous with almost no 100+ days (very unusual), July was normal hot. August has been hotter than normal and we have not had many monsoons, which means I have to water my trees regularly.

Last summer was also unusually mild, with the heat amazingly breaking in mid-September (mid-October is more normal). Of course, here everybody has A/C; going without is not really an option.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

I'm not sure about "most". The South and Southeast tend to be a bit on the damp side.



We've had one of the hottest summers on record here in NC. Daytime highs for the past few weeks have pretty much stayed in or near the 90s, with mid-90s frequent. Meanwhile the humidity hovers right around that 70% you mention.

"Steam bath" is a term getting used a lot.

Salinity changes where it subsides into the deep ocean, but the Gulf Stream itself is actually wind driven



Yes the US south can get these temperatures but not as often as you may think, especially in the more humid costal areas. Tampa Bay Florida has never recorded a 100+ Deg day, Savannah GA’s all time record is 100 Deg C Atlanta hits 100 once every few years so it’s still not a frequent occurrence. Heat index in London reached as high as 115 Deg F, which isn’t all that common even in the US south. A big difference is that no one in the UK has AC.

Head a little further west. Places in OK for example have averaged a high of 95, heat index of 106 and relative humidity of 72% this month. Not 115, but 4 days 110+. I grew up there, and can attest to the steam bath comment.