Real Cancer Cure Miracle

[Skeptic Ginger]

US doctors kill skin cancer with cloned T-cells

Yee and his associates from the Clinical Research Division at Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle removed CD4+ T-cells, a type of white blood cell, from a 52-year-old man whose melanoma had spread to a groin lymph node and to one of his lungs.

The melanoma was already well advanced and in stage four.

The T-cells which specifically fight melanoma were modified and expanded in the laboratory and some five billion cells were then infused into the patient, who received no other kind of treatment.

Two months later no tumors were found during scans of the patient's organs. And he has been cancer free for two years, Yee said.

"We were surprised by the anti-tumor effect of these CD4 T cells and its duration of response," Yee said. "For this patient we were successful, but we would need to confirm the effectiveness of therapy in a larger study."

It was the first ever case to show that cloned cells from a patient's own immune system can successful combat skin cancer. If further tests confirm the efficiency of the method, it could be used in some 25 percent of patients with late-stage skin cancer, the study said.

This is incredible! And I'm sure it is just a start. Designer immune system cells, drugs, or nanotechnology, take your pick. Soon we'll just be injecting the designer cures into people and away they will go to destroy the targeted disease cells.

As a side note, this also could explain so called 'miracle' tumor regressions in rare cases.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Here's a bit more:
Treatment of Metastatic Melanoma with Autologous CD4+ T Cells against NY-ESO-1

SUMMARY

We developed an in vitro method for isolating and expanding autologous CD4+ T-cell clones with specificity for the melanoma-associated antigen NY-ESO-1. We infused these cells into a patient with refractory metastatic melanoma who had not undergone any previous conditioning or cytokine treatment. We show that the transferred CD4+ T cells mediated a durable clinical remission and led to endogenous responses against melanoma antigens other than NY-ESO-1.

Fred Hutch research, "In the News"

It appears this was the only successful treatment this time, but that just means they need to learn more about the treatment.

From the WA Post

Still, the immune-priming experiments have yet to yield a consistent therapy. Even researchers who worked on the experiment involving nine patients and just one success are quick to couch the result. "This is only one patient," said study co-author Dr. Cassian Yee of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle.

And two years after his remarkable recovery, the patient fell out of contact with researchers and scientists do not know his current condition. The man, who lives in a small town in Oregon, has declined media interviews, Yee said.

Weird twist.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

From US News & World Report

Research shows several instances when a patient's own immune system kicked in to oust a cancer even without help from sophisticated new technologies. Dr. Vijay Trisal, assistant professor of surgical oncology at City of Hope Cancer Center in Duarte, Calif., recounted two such cases: One, a woman whose melanoma had spread to her lungs, brain and other parts of her body, was stung by a bee and subsequently recovered not only from the bee sting but also from the cancer. Two, a man with advanced melanoma who stepped into a poison ivy patch and experienced a similar recovery....

..."Maybe there were 10 cells in the body that were very good, sort of a smart bomb against the melanoma, but they weren't enough," Trisal explained. "The bee sting or poison ivy multiplied these smart bombs one thousand times so suddenly this army of 10 became an army of a billion."

Now this is bound to lead to cancer patients seeking out bees and poison ivy. I wonder if there was any real evidence behind that statement or if the researcher realizes how quickly people latch on to magic bullets.

 

[INRM]

I wonder what condition the man is in now.

INRM

 

[casebro]

Hmmm... I just lately read that there is an enzyme in white cells that breaks down the AGE which cause so much of the side effects of diabetes. Do you think the same technique might work there too?

Anyways, triggering an advanced immune response would explain lots of the mysterious remissions- eliminating LOTS of Woo 'cures'.

I've always wondered if the triggering events might have been eliminated by our excessive prissyness . Some folks seem to be ready to faint over the fact that I may have a cut without a bandage on it. But maybe exposure has kept me healthy?

I bee stings and allergies do it, why wouldn't the common cold? Or some other common infection?

Bee venom is supposedly good for arthritis, maybe it triggers an immune respone there too, since arthritis is supposedly an auto-immune probem?

 

[Complexity]

Not a miracle.

Science.

 

[Ixion]

I have the original article sitting on my desk right now. Funny, I came across it before its mention on this thread. Very promising for skin cancer patients.

 

[krazyKemist]

I bee stings and allergies do it, why wouldn't the common cold? Or some other common infection?

Bee venom is supposedly good for arthritis, maybe it triggers an immune respone there too, since arthritis is supposedly an auto-immune probem?

There is already a controversial treatment which is used to induce fever in cancer patients called Coley's toxin. It was used with uneven success, and its side effects (long bouts of fever) can be even more hazardous than those of conventional chemotherapy.

Bee venom has also been used in alt. med. in the treatment of MS. People will have a bee sting daily to prevent subsequent crises. However, the danger of developping a dangerous allergic reaction to bee venom is certainly a big risk factor. One day, you have your bee sting and you go into anaphylactic choc. Great. In the case of cancer, I'd rather have the chemo.

The operative word here is amplification of a specific immunity, not a blast of toxic responses from all the immune system components with one that happens to be just what it takes for the tumor. For that you need a specific antigen that's there on the cancer cells, and not on your body cells. That's not always possible. Remember, cancer is several diseases. The more we'll type those things (receptors, surface antigens, ect.) the more we'll be able to devise proper cures. Cancers can have diametrically different behaviors which we can target in clever ways.

 

[robinson]

Calling science and research a "Miracle" doesn't seem right.

 

[shadron]

Wonderful news, on top of the news that since the 90's the number of 5 years cures as a proportion of number of diagnosed cancers has continued trending downwards. Bravo.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Not a miracle.

Science.

That is what "real" referred to. Something 'miraculous' doesn't have to meet any technical standards of the Catholic Church.

See #2

mir·a·cle (mr-kl)
n.
1. An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God: "Miracles are spontaneous, they cannot be summoned, but come of themselves" Katherine Anne Porter.
2. One that excites admiring awe. See Synonyms at wonder.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Calling science and research a "Miracle" doesn't seem right.

You'd love for me to be wrong, wouldn't you, Rob? See post #11. I am not.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Hmmm... I just lately read that there is an enzyme in white cells that breaks down the AGE which cause so much of the side effects of diabetes. Do you think the same technique might work there too?

Anyways, triggering an advanced immune response would explain lots of the mysterious remissions- eliminating LOTS of Woo 'cures'.

I've always wondered if the triggering events might have been eliminated by our excessive prissyness . Some folks seem to be ready to faint over the fact that I may have a cut without a bandage on it. But maybe exposure has kept me healthy?

I bee stings and allergies do it, why wouldn't the common cold? Or some other common infection?

Bee venom is supposedly good for arthritis, maybe it triggers an immune respone there too, since arthritis is supposedly an auto-immune probem?

I would put zero credence in the bee sting anecdote unless there was some other citation discussing it that provided more data. All we have here is a useless comment.

But as for what else one might target with designer immune cells. I would think that there was potential for its use in a number of areas. Research dollars and time however, will be used when there are good hypotheses and I'm not sure if there is one for your example.

 

[robinson]

We show that the transferred CD4+ T cells mediated a durable clinical remission and led to endogenous responses against melanoma antigens other than NY-ESO-1.

As with Woo claims and treatments, without double blind placebo trials, they don't know that is the case at all. Especially considering the wealth of cases where similar situations occurred, after all hope was lost, and it was labeled, "spontaneous remission".

Where are the controls? What was the placebo? How large was he sample size? While some seem adverse to holding established medical authorities to a different standard, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Calling something a miracle doesn't change that.

There is a host of other issues raised by this story as well. Cmon skeptics, use your minds. What else does this mean for cancer treatments? And medicine?

 

[Dr. Imago]

"Designer" cancer cures = $$$$$

My concern is that, even if ulitmately proven successful (noting Robinson's concerns), the broad applicability of such therapies will be cost prohibitive.

-Dr. Imago

 

[robinson]

Indeed. But rich people with cancer will pay anything no to die. OK, poor people would too, but anything is a lot.

In fact, it is such a desire, not to die, that leads terminal cases to try anything, even if it is woo as can be. What have they got to lose?

In an ironic sort of way, many people with cancer have already reported "cures" from DCA. There scientific method is pretty much the same as the one in the OP. "We did this, and a few people who did it, there cancer went away." Of course the same problem exists with there stories as the "Miracle" noted here. No controls, no double blind, and a very small group.

Big difference would be, it cost almost nothing
by comparison.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

"Designer" cancer cures = $$$$$

My concern is that, even if ulitmately proven successful (noting Robinson's concerns), the broad applicability of such therapies will be cost prohibitive.

-Dr. Imago

Costs come down as the technology is improved. These designer Tcells are used all the time. I doubt the costs are much more than months of chemo, radiation and/or surgery.

And I can't believe you really think Robinson has a point that these researchers were too sloppy with controls in their research to know the treatment was effective and not something else. You don't need a control group to see a hammer was the cause of breaking a window if you observed the act. Surely you know the Fred Hutch researchers would not conclude this treatment was effective if they weren't certain? They would say they weren't certain.

Robinson fancys he has some superior knowledge of research over the Hutch research groups. I think not.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Considering the source of this research, I find robinson's comment about controls naive and insulting. This is not to argue from authority, but rather it is like the Young Earth Creationists trying to claim radioisotope measurement of rock ages is not a valid measurement. Robinson's education and expertise compared to this large group of world renowned researchers is frankly, laughable.

Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center

Patient's own infection-fighting T cells put late-stage melanoma into long-term remission — without chemotherapy or radiation - Case is first to show safety and effectiveness of using cloned cells alone to kill tumors

A team led by Cassian Yee, M.D., an associate member of the Clinical Research Division at Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, reports these findings in the June 19 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine....

The researchers were successful in all of these areas. The patient received a dose of 5 billion cloned CD4+ T cells with specificity for the melanoma-associated NY-ESO-1 antigen. The cells persisted for at least 80 days in the patient's body. And, even though only 50 percent to 75 percent of the patient's tumor cells expressed the NY-ESO-1 antigen, the entire tumor regressed following the infusion. The scientists postulated that the patient's immune response was broadened to other antigens expressed by the tumor cells. Follow-up tests showed T-cell responses to two additional tumor antigens, MAGE-3 and MART-1.

Researchers in Yee's lab, the University of Washington School of Medicine and the Ludwig Institute for Cancer Research in New York collaborated on the research. The Burroughs-Wellcome Foundation, Damon Runyon Cancer Research Foundation, Edson Foundation and National Cancer Institute funded the study.

Dr. Yee is enrolling patients into two new clinical trials that use T-cell therapy to treat advanced melanoma. For details, follow these Web links: http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00438984; http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00553306

Some of you have NEJM access. Major libraries usually carry it.

Cancer Immunotherapy — The Endgame Begins

In 1987, an editorial accompanying a report on the use of high-dose interleukin-2 therapy for cancer asked whether the field of immunotherapy was at "the beginning of the end" or "the end of the beginning."1 In retrospect, I would say it was at the "beginning of the beginning." Have we made progress since then? Finn, in her review of tumor immunology in this issue of the Journal (pages 2704–2715), answers emphatically in the affirmative, and the report by Hunder et al., also in this issue (pages 2698–2703), underscores the remarkable potential of the immune system to eradicate cancer, even when . .

(paid subscription or $10 to see the full paper)

Treatment of Metastatic Melanoma with Autologous CD4+ T Cells against NY-ESO-1

Naomi N. Hunder, M.D., Herschel Wallen, M.D., Jianhong Cao, Ph.D., Deborah W. Hendricks, B.Sc., John Z. Reilly, B.Sc., Rebecca Rodmyre, B.Sc., Achim Jungbluth, M.D., Sacha Gnjatic, Ph.D., John A. Thompson, M.D., and Cassian Yee, M.D.

SUMMARY

We developed an in vitro method for isolating and expanding autologous CD4+ T-cell clones with specificity for the melanoma-associated antigen NY-ESO-1. We infused these cells into a patient with refractory metastatic melanoma who had not undergone any previous conditioning or cytokine treatment. We show that the transferred CD4+ T cells mediated a durable clinical remission and led to endogenous responses against melanoma antigens other than NY-ESO-1.

(paid subscription or $10 to see the full paper)

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Re the cost issue,

Adoptive T cell therapy: Addressing challenges in cancer immunotherapy; Cassian Yee, corresponding author; Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center...
6. Feasibility considerations

Advances in the isolation of antigen-specific T cells by cell sorting or immunomagnetic bead selection that can expedite the process, specialized reagents and culture vessels that facilitate expansion and storage and quality control measures that ensure product fidelity are currently being developed and will decrease many of these cost-related, and logistical issues.

 

[robinson]

... And I can't believe you really think Robinson has a point that these researchers were too sloppy with controls in their research to know the treatment was effective and not something else. You don't need a control group to see a hammer was the cause of breaking a window if you observed the act.

Do not change a member's words in an apparent direct quote.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero

That is exactly the reasoning used by people putting DCA on skin cancer, then concluding that after 10 days has passed, when the cancer is gone, that the DCA caused the cancer cells to die. They even take photos of the entire event. Big Cancer on skin, then no cancer.

Yet that "Miracle" is dismissed by "authorities" as wishful thinking, bad science, or spontaneous remission.

Same is true for a number of other "alternative" treatments for all kinds of medical issues. Unless it has large, repeatable studies, double blind placebo studies, anything can be dismissed.

To understand this, just imagine somebody started a thread about the Miracle of DCA, claiming it has been observed to halt or reverse tumor growth in hundreds of people. But with no study to back the claim up.

There level of "evidence" is exactly the same as what this thread offers. Well, actually much higher, since the number of people is much greater.