Racial profiling at airports

[Hercules56]

Should we allow the TSA to use racial or ethnic profiling when deciding who to search more at airports?

 

[Babbylonian]

Every option assumes that racial profiling would work, a fact I'm not sure is in evidence. I don't think one could easily pick an "islamic face" out of a US airport crowd. I wouldn't be able to do it on a crowded Portland bus (far fewer people than would be screened in an airport security line) because muslims can have many different hair and skin colors.

 

[Brainster]

Yeah, and it's not like their names would give us any kind of clue.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

Names often don't, actually.

 

[Babbylonian]

Yeah, and it's not like their names would give us any kind of clue.

It certainly wouldn't tell us if they were born in Saudi Arabia or are fully assimilated 3rd generation American citizens who haven't been in a mosque since they were 10. It certainly wouldn't be at all helpful in finding a lily white kid named Dave Johnson who converted to Islam and somewhere along the way became a jihadist.

Perhaps most importantly, how many terrorist attacks on US airplanes have been carried out since 2001? What's the impetus for increasing scrutiny of arabs and/or muslims in the first place? Don't worry about answering, I'll take this one: It's racism.

 

[Hercules56]

What I mean is this: the TSA will add extra scrutiny to the backgrounds and searches of all persons born in the Muslim world, citizens of Muslim countries, or having spent a lot of trips to Muslim nations. They will also add extra scrutiny to people with clearly Islamic names, or is in clearly Islamic dress.

They will stop all extra measures added after 9-11, for clearly non-Muslim individuals, grandmas, babies, etc.

 

[elbe]

Yeah, and it's not like their names would give us any kind of clue.

I'm a quarter arabic through my dad. My last name is italian but I don't have any known italian ancestry. Names are not extremely useful, especially if the people you want to watch out for know what you are looking for.

 

[Babbylonian]

Did they restaff the TSA with trained FBI agents when I wasn't looking? What are they going to scrutinize about these people's "backgrounds"

Also, I really love the idea of increasing scrutiny of those in "muslim dress." After all, buying jeans and a T-shirt isn't the first thing a terrorist would do to blend in with the crowd.

As far as I can tell, what you're proposing is this: Give white folks a break. Airport security is crazy!

Either that, or there is an assumption that somehow arabs/Muslims are already getting away with airliner monkey business and we have got to fix it!

It's been 13 years, the cockpits are on lockdown, and nobody is likely to meekly go along with a hijacking again given the events of 9/11. We're not looking for muslims riding planes, we're looking for terrorists, weapons, and bombs riding planes. I don't think giving white folks a free pass while harassing a lot of innocent darker people is likely to help security that much.

 

[Ladewig]

What I mean is this: the TSA will add extra scrutiny to the backgrounds and searches of all persons born in the Muslim world, citizens of Muslim countries, or having spent a lot of trips to Muslim nations. They will also add extra scrutiny to people with clearly Islamic names, or is in clearly Islamic dress.

They will stop all extra measures added after 9-11, for clearly non-Muslim individuals, grandmas, babies, etc.

I cannot vote because the poll does not have a Planet X option or an option indicating that such a plan might actually decrease safety. Once certain groups are placed on a less-scrutinized list, terrorists will plant explosives on those people and the terrorists will be able to blow up planes without even being on board.

Furthermore, I would want to see the reports from U.S. intelligence agencies indicating that they are convinced that targeting Muslims for extra security will not create a backlash that will lead to more terrorist attacks worldwide.

 

[Pope130]

What I mean is this: the TSA will add extra scrutiny to the backgrounds and searches of all persons born in the Muslim world, citizens of Muslim countries, or having spent a lot of trips to Muslim nations.

This could be a real problem for me, I've got a couple of hundred trips into Muslim countries (in that old airplane to the left).


(Dang, this was my 1111th post. I should have done something in CT!)

 

[balrog666]

Isn't that religious or cultural profiling?

So ... yes, of course!

 

[Mudcat]

Once certain groups are placed on a less-scrutinized list, terrorists will plant explosives on those people and the terrorists will be able to blow up planes without even being on board.

Or recruit people from races/ethnicities/age groups/whatever that are less scrutinized. It's not like terrorists are complete morons, and how hard would it be for them to recruit a fundamentalist Christian who believes that America should be an isolationist Christian country?

Furthermore, I would want to see the reports from U.S. intelligence agencies indicating that they are convinced that targeting Muslims for extra security will not create a backlash that will lead to more terrorist attacks worldwide.

Agreed.

Dang, this was my 1111th post. I should have done something in CT!

Am I missing some context here? What is the significance of 1111?

 

[Unabogie]

YEAH, LET'S DO THIS THING!!

Oh...hang on.

90% of all terrorism on US soil has been done by non-muslims?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013...ttacks-on-u-s-soil-between-1970-and-2012.html

An FBI report shows that only a small percentage of terrorist attacks carried out on U.S. soil between 1980 and 2005 were perpetrated by Muslims.

Hmm, this seems odd.

According to this data, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism within the United States than Islamic (7% vs 6%). These radical Jews committed acts of terrorism in the name of their religion. These were not terrorists who happened to be Jews; rather, they were extremist Jews who committed acts of terrorism based on their religious passions, just like Al-Qaeda and company.

Now wait, just a dang minute!!! I'm Jewish. You mean now we have to screen me extra hard at the airport??? That's not what I meant!!! I meant screen those other guys!!!

Wait!!!

I have a plane to catch!!!

Leave...

Me...

Alooooooonnnnnnee!!!!

 

[Pope130]

Am I missing some context here? What is the significance of 1111?

It's the "eleventy" thing that the 9/11 Truth Movement people did. Just silliness, it's that kind of day.

 

[theprestige]

Furthermore, I would want to see the reports from U.S. intelligence agencies indicating that they are convinced that targeting Muslims for extra security will not create a backlash that will lead to more terrorist attacks worldwide.

There's plenty of terrorist attacks worldwide already, so there should be a good data set to work with. Have you seen any reports that lead you to believe terrorist attacks worldwide are typically prompted by specific US policies?

I mean, I could see an angry young American Muslim in the US taking his frustrations out on a TSA he believes is overreaching, or on the society he believes is enabling that overreach. But worldwide? Like maybe there'd be one more suicide bomber in Pakistan next year, only this one would be mass-murdering in Islamabad because the TSA is doing ethnic profiling? I think maybe your concern for unintended consequences is misplaced.

 

[Babbylonian]

Now wait, just a dang minute!!! I'm Jewish. You mean now we have to screen me extra hard at the airport??? That's not what I meant!!! I meant screen those other guys!!!

I know how much your want to be persecuted but these days we pretty much consider you white. We're not too worried about you tossing matzo balls in the harbor or whatever it is you people do to protest pork products.

 

[Unabogie]

I know how much your want to be persecuted but these days we pretty much consider you white. We're not too worried about you tossing matzo balls in the harbor or whatever it is you people do to protest pork products.

Nah, those days are over. We're too busy these days running Hollywood and stealing gentile babies to worry about pork.

 

[Ladewig]

There's plenty of terrorist attacks worldwide already, so there should be a good data set to work with. Have you seen any reports that lead you to believe terrorist attacks worldwide are typically prompted by specific US policies?

I mean, I could see an angry young American Muslim in the US taking his frustrations out on a TSA he believes is overreaching, or on the society he believes is enabling that overreach. But worldwide? Like maybe there'd be one more suicide bomber in Pakistan next year, only this one would be mass-murdering in Islamabad because the TSA is doing ethnic profiling? I think maybe your concern for unintended consequences is misplaced.

I was referring to the targeting of Americans outside of America. Perhaps in tourist sites or nightclubs frequented by Americans.

Of course, I could be 100% wrong in my concerns. All I asked for was for some reassurance by experts in the field before implementing ethnic and religious profiling on a national scale.

 

[Brainster]

YEAH, LET'S DO THIS THING!!

Oh...hang on.

90% of all terrorism on US soil has been done by non-muslims?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013...ttacks-on-u-s-soil-between-1970-and-2012.html



Hmm, this seems odd.



Now wait, just a dang minute!!! I'm Jewish. You mean now we have to screen me extra hard at the airport??? That's not what I meant!!! I meant screen those other guys!!!

Wait!!!

I have a plane to catch!!!

Leave...

Me...

Alooooooonnnnnnee!!!!

Nice link. To a 9-11 Truther site.

Last week, CNN’s Jake Tapper engaged in little more than name-calling in his segment ‘Truthers’ to protest 9/11 Museum. Tapper brought in a like-minded guest, Salon columnist Emily Bazelon, who relied on the same kind of seat-of-the-pants speculation to denounce protesters.

It's a total kook site; in that particular post they dredge up Kennedy assassination theories (giving nutbar Jim Garrison lots of props) and believe it or not, the ancient Dag Hammerskjold crap.

But even if you didn't know that the site was kook central, how credulous do you have to be to believe that more terrorist attacks on US soil have been carried out by Jews than Muslims? Did you have even a modest inkling that maybe, just maybe the scale might be a little off, even if somehow the number of events was comparable?

Sheesh, what a great example of non-critical thinking.

 

[Brainster]

Names often don't, actually.

I posted this a few years back on SLC:

Well, just for fun, let's play hunt the hijacker, shall we? Here are the non-crew members of Flight 175; without racially profiling, let's see if you can figure out whodunnit:

Alona Avraham
Garnet "Ace" Bailey
Fayez Banihammad
Mark Bavis
Graham Berkeley
Touri Bolourchi
Klaus Bothe
Daniel Brandhorst
David Brandhorst
John Cahill
Christoffer Carstanjen
John Corcoran "Jay" Corcoran
Dorothy Dearaujo
Gloria Debarrera
Lisa Frost
Ronald Gamboa
Ahmed al-Ghamdi
Hamza al-Ghamdi
Lynn Goodchild
The Rev. Francis E. Grogan
Carl Hammond
Peter Hanson
Susan Hanson
Christine Hanson
Gerald Hardacre
Eric Hartono
James E. Hayden
Herbert Homer
Robert Jalbert
Ralph Kershaw
Heinrich Kimmig
Brian Kinney
Robert LeBlanc
Maclovio "Joe" Lopez Jr.
Marianne MacFarlane
Louis Neil Mariani
Juliana Valentine McCourt
Ruth McCourt
Wolfgang Menzel
Shawn Nassaney
Patrick Quigley
Frederick Rimmele
James M. Roux
Jesus Sanchez
Kathleen Shearer
Robert Shearer
Marwan al-Shehhi
Mohand al-Shehri
Jane Simpkin
Brian D. Sweeney
Timothy Ward
William Weems

Anybody care to guess who the five hijackers were? It's not really tricky.