"Quick, We Need A Distraction!" (Mugrabi Gate repairs)

[webfusion]

It all started one snowy Jerusalem day in 2004, when part of the earthen ramp leading to the Mugrabi Gate - the main gate to the Temple Mount - collapsed.


The Israelis have a construction crew out there now, trying to move ahead with a multi-million dollar renovation project, and guess what?

The muslims are complaining that the jews are trying to demolish the Temple Mount and destroy the AlAqsa and build a third temple, blah blah blah.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArtVty.jhtml?sw=mugrabi&itemNo=822745

Just as the palestinian leaders are trying to get something accomplished to stop their own from killing each other, they have latched onto this as an opportunity to "unite" against the jews/zionists/Israelis (depending on who you listen to)

Israeli MK Talab El-Sana (United Arab List) warned on Tuesday that the excavations are likely to ignite a third intifada, that will include protests and conflict throughout the Arab and Muslim world.

"The Israeli government is again provoking the Muslim world and the Palestinian people, and is not hesitating to ignite the region on behalf of irresponsible decisions," El-Sana said. [

Threats, complaints and more threats.

Yet, the ramp is in ruins, and constructing a safe pedestrian walkway is the logical way to proceed. Oh, Jerusalem, it's never a dull day.

 

[webfusion]

what, not juicy enough?

OK, so I started a thread that is obscure...

Anyway, just to update:


-- Iran`s Ayatollah Ali Khamenei urges Islamic states to retaliate against Jerusalem dig (AP)

-- Islamic Movement head Sheikh Ra'ad Salah arrested for trying to reach Temple Mount by breaking through police barricade (Army Radio)

-- HAMAS protests in the streets against the project ::: PHOTO HERE

 

[webfusion]

sound of crickets chirping

This is a HUGE story in the arab press worldwide, and the media in Israel is covering it extensively.

The Defense Minister of Israel is now indicating that the work should be halted, in respect of the sensibilities of Muslims everywhere.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/823269.html

Also, the US State Department has just requested a complete briefing on the situation.

Lack of comments here is puzzling.

 

[gtc]

Dog Bites Man is Not News for a Reason

The only thing that is new about this story is the specific grievance.

Everything else, from the degree of over reaction to the bluster from the Iranians, is just the same old same old.

I bet there is a form for these stories at the press agencies.

"Today the Israelis <insert inoccuous Israeli actions>.

This led to calls for the destruction of Israel by <insert spokesperson> who said, "By <insert inoccuous Israeli actions> the Israelis are trying to destabilize the entire region. The end result will be violence and conflict...."

 

[webfusion]

You know what, gtc, you are absolutely correct.

Here, let's try it, and see what happens:

• Today the Israelis <insert inoccuous Israeli actions> Returned Warning Fire at Lebanese Army Units Who Had Begun Shooting At IDF Across the International Border.
  
  This led to calls for the destruction of Israel by <insert spokesperson> Hezbollah-sponsored AlManar TV commentators who declared that, <insert inoccuous Israeli actions> "IDF bulldozers accompanied by Engineering Corps and infantry troops were overturning mounds of earth."
  
  "The Israelis are trying to destabilize the entire region. The end result will be violence and more conflict..."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/823212.html

Yeah, we're numb to it all.
It all blends together into one incomprehensible mess.
Mugrabi Mushabi.

 

[Mycroft]

The only thing that is new about this story is the specific grievance.

Everything else, from the degree of over reaction to the bluster from the Iranians, is just the same old same old.

I bet there is a form for these stories at the press agencies.

"Today the Israelis <insert inoccuous Israeli actions>.

This led to calls for the destruction of Israel by <insert spokesperson> who said, "By <insert inoccuous Israeli actions> the Israelis are trying to destabilize the entire region. The end result will be violence and conflict...."

You're right, this is a "dog bites man" story, but it's still well worth drawing attention to because there is still the cadre of "True Believers" who continue to remain in denial about how Arab grievances against Israel are manufactured and inflated, often with little or no foundation.

 

[gtc]

You're right, this is a "dog bites man" story, but it's still well worth drawing attention to because there is still the cadre of "True Believers" who continue to remain in denial about how Arab grievances against Israel are manufactured and inflated, often with little or no foundation.

True, but it explains why there were no comments.

 

[steverino]

I think this story needs an astronaut and a diaper to sex things up a bit.

 

[webfusion]

steverino, the story needs nothing, it's fine just the way it is.

• Egypt's top Muslim cleric called Israeli excavations near a compound housing the Al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem a "sinful aggression" and appealed on Wednesday for global action to protect the site.

What do you think is wrong with these badly-needed renovation efforts? Should Israel stop, to satisfy the demands of the muslims who object?

Address the issues, if you want to, but don't come into my thread and snipe with complete inanities. TIA.

 

[Dr Adequate]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/823212.html

The story seems to have disappeared.

But I see from that website that there is something they can all agree on:

"Please do not upset our lord" was the joint appeal from Jewish, Christian, and Muslim clerics at a news conference in Jerusalem on Wednesday to protest plans to host the WorldPride gay festival in August.

Suddenly, I have a plan for peace in the Middle East. Now, I know it sounds a little strange at first, but hear me out ...

 

[webfusion]

ha'aretz has technical glitches constantly

The (OP-linked) story seems to have disappeared.

The editorial wizards at Ha'aretz are constantly screwing up their website, with updates and new stories that completely change at a whim.

What they need to do is hire a native English-speaker with a proper sense of continuity and allow him/her to organize the website in a way that allows their readers to follow stories over the course of a few days. Especially since many initial reports in Israel are sketchy and often wrong, and it takes a while for the details to be revealed correctly.

The story about the construction project at the Mugrabi Gate is now linked to this conglomeration of various reports:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/823269.html

The major element in that update is the response of the Prime Minister's Office to the request by Defense Minister Peretz to halt the work:

• "As to the matter at hand," the statement said, "the restoration of the Mugrabi ascent after the place collapsed and was declared a dangerous structure was done in complete coordination with all parties, including foreign countries, relevant Muslim officials and international bodies. As has been explained, this work is being carried on outside the Temple Mount, and they [the repairs] do not constitute any damage to the Mount or Islamic holy places."
  
  "The work is being carried out by professionals and with complete transparency, entirely for the safety of visitors to the Mount," the statement continued. "A thorough examination of the matter would reveal that nothing about the work underway will harm anyone, and there is no truth in the contentions against the work."

And the project continues...

(a friend of mine in Jerusalem has told me that construction activity is now ongoing, and an extremely heavy police presence is guarding the entire Western Wall Plaza and the surrounding area).

 

[geni]

You know what, gtc, you are absolutely correct.

Here, let's try it, and see what happens:

• Today the Israelis <insert inoccuous Israeli actions> Returned Warning Fire at Lebanese Army Units Who Had Begun Shooting At IDF Across the International Border.

• 
  
  What is the Lebanese Army doing in southen Lebanon? Did they get lost or something?

 

[webfusion]

The question you asked, geni, is absurd, in relation to the events.

Liam McDowell, a spokesman for the UN Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL), said the exchange was initiated by the Lebanese army and that the IDF bulldozer was operating in the neutral zone beyond the Israeli-constructed security fence, but the IDF troops had not violated the Blue Line. (Internationally-recognized demarcation between the two countries)


Geni's question should be properly phrased:
"What is the Lebanese Army doing shooting at the IDF across the Blue Line?
Did they lose their minds, or something?"

Let me say something, lest this be construed as a derail to the topic:
This is directly related to the entire issue of the OP ----
The Israeli construction on the Mugrabi gate rampart is outside the Temple Mount and completely outside the boundries of the WAQF-controlled Al-Aqsa complex.

In both instances, Israel is doing things that are consistent with the normal responsibilities of any nation. In one case, it sends military engineering units to clear a border area of IED's (Improvised Explosive Devices, or mines) and other munitions which pose a clear and present danger. In the other case, it sends civil engineering units to repair a disintegrating access walkway which has been condemned as a clear and present danger.

In both instances, Israel faces arab anger and violent reactions just for operating in a logical and normal way.

And this thread is attracting minimal attention precisely because we are a group of logical and normal people (in general) and cannot see the need for Israel to have to answer for actions that are consistent and rational.

Now, the French, on the other hand ----
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/823212.html
The French ambassdor to the United Nations said Thursday that Paris wants the UN Security Council to discuss and react to the Wednesday night border clash between the Israel Defense Forces and the Lebanese Army.

"We think that the council should have an exchange of views on this issue, which is an important one," France's UN Ambassador Jean-Marc de la Sabliere told reporters.

 

[geni]

The question you asked, geni, is absurd, in relation to the events.

Not really. Southen lebanon is hezbollah turf.

Geni's question should be properly phrased:
"What is the Lebanese Army doing shooting at the IDF across the Blue Line?
Did they lose their minds, or something?"

Eh isreal shot a few egyptions a while back. It happens on tense boarders.

 

[gtc]

The question you asked, geni, is absurd, in relation to the events.

Actually, it depends on your perspective. From this distance, it was a witty remark about the fact that the Lebanese army seem to have ceded the South of the country to Hezbollah.

Of course, Hezbollah have no plans to invade my country (although this fine felllow is standing for election), so the joke may not be as funny from your perspective.




By the way, what do you make of this article from the Sydney Morning Herald

The choice quotes are these (emphasis mine):

AFTER weeks of fraternal violence, many Palestinians accuse the US of stoking civil war in the Palestinian territories as part of a wider proxy struggle with Iran, Syria or the Islamic world in general. If that is so, the White House's strategy risks going badly wrong.

The Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, has rejected all appeals, including one from the Defence Minister, Amir Peretz, and from Arab states, to halt excavation work near Jerusalem's most important holy site, Reuters reports. Mr Olmert said the excavations in search of ancient artifacts beneath the compound known to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif and which houses the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and to Jews as the Temple Mount, would not harm the sacred site in Jerusalem's walled Old City.

Lets replace one conspiracy theory with another in the first quote:

AFTER weeks of fraternal violence, many Palestinians accuse the Jews of drinking the blood of children. If that is so, the Jew's strategy risks going badly wrong.

 

[webfusion]

The Sydney HERALD is making stuff up.
Prime Minister Olmert did not say that the Israelis are "in search of ancient artifacts beneath the compound" (known to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif)

There is no digging taking place under the compound. That is the lie.

Here, let me illustrate:

(SEE IMAGE)
Key to locations ---
#1. The southwest corner of the outer wall of the area was in danger of completely collapsing, and Jordanian work crews erected scaffolding there in a major effort to reinforce the stone. The "bulge" was apparently caused as a result of digging into the Solomon's Stables on the inside of the wall, which was done without any proper supervision by the Israeli engineers and antiquities specialists. That entire underground corner of the Mount was converted into a mosque.

#2. AlAqsa Mosque, with the gray dome. Many people assume the prominent golden-domed structure in the center of the Mount (#4) is the Al-Aqsa, but that's incorrect.

#3. This is the dirt rampart leading up to the Mugrabi (Maghreb) Gate.

#4. Mosque of Omar. Built over the Rock of Abraham (where Abraham was prepared to sacrifice Isaac).

#5. Dung Gate. This is a major entrance for the Western Wall Plaza and is a primary tourist passage into the Old City. Security here is high, with electronic scanners and ID checks.

#6. Western (Wailing) Wall.

 

[webfusion]

Rioting again...

About 200 police officers entered the area around the Al-Aqsa Mosque and hurled stun grenades to disperse Muslim protesters there midday Friday, as hundreds of demonstrators threw stones.

Also, in Nazareth, 10,000 protestors took to the streets to condemn the "Jewish assault on the Mosque."

As has happened several times in the past, the current campaign to "defend Al-Aqsa" is not based on facts, but on the political and/or religious needs of its leaders.

 

[Skeptic]

The editorial wizards at Ha'aretz are constantly screwing up their website, with updates and new stories that completely change at a whim.

I'm shocked--SHOCKED--that a daily newspaper's web site will get new stories "on a whim".

 

[webfusion]

Skeptic, gotta hand it to you, you sure know how to pour cold water down a guy's neck.

The problem with Ha'aretz is not that they have new stories on their website, but rather that they lack continuity with links to stories which already exist.

Go click on the link in the OP and you'll see.

=================================

Jews were prevented from praying today at the Western Wall due to the rioting by the Arabs, and the police had to close-off the entire area.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3362619,00.html
An appeal to the High Court of Justice may be made by various jewish groups to force the police to close the Temple Mount completely.

 

[webfusion]

Protests against the construction have spread throughout the Muslim world, where demonstrators have accused Israel of plotting to harm Islamic shrines.


Public Security Minister Avi Dichter (Kadima) said Saturday that "Israel will foil any attempt on the part of Muslims to convince the world that the Al-Aqsa Mosque is in danger."

In an Interview to Israel Radio, Dichter said that the construction and excavation is going on "outside of the Temple Mount compound, and whoever says otherwise must prove their argument."


For clear evidence of the location of the rampart outside the Temple Mount, please see my post #16 above.