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quick question about Sagan debunking "abductees"

UnTrickaBLe

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There was a great part in "Demon-Haunted World" where Carl toyed with some "UFO abductees" he was in correspondence with.

First, he asked the people to write him back and tell him about the "aliens." They would write back and describe the aliens in great detail.

Next Carl asked, "What do they think of our world?" And again, the same people wrote back with lengthy diatribes attributed to the "aliens".

Then Carl lowered the boom. ;)

He wrote back saying something like, "Since the aliens clearly have extremely advanced techonology, can you please ask them to solve the XXXXX Equation, which has been stumping our best scientists here on earth for decades..."

Of course, he never got ONE letter back to that question.

So my question is: what was the equation Carl asked them to have the aliens solve? I don't have my copy of "Demon-Haunted World" readily available.

thanks.
 
Fermat's Last Theorem? Though this has been solved in recent years. I guess we're one up on the aliens.
 
The most puzzling argument Sagan proposed against abductions was, how come the neighbors never see anything? Now, that's a question.
 
Pantastic said:
Fermat's Last Theorem? Though this has been solved in recent years. I guess we're one up on the aliens.
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Bingo!

Here is part of it...

"Occasionally, I get a letter from someone who is in 'contact' with extraterrestrials. I am invited to 'ask them anything'. And so over the years I've prepared a little list of questions. The extraterrestrials are very advanced remember. So I ask things like, 'Please provide a short proof of Fermat's Last Theorem'... I never get an answer. On the other hand, if I ask something like 'Should we be good?' I almost always get an answer. Anything vague, especially involving conventional moral judgments, these aliens are extremely happy to respond to. But on anything specific, where there is a chance to find out if they actually know anything beyond what most humans know, there is only silence."

- Carl Sagan, "The Demon Haunted World"
Click to expand...
 
So what would be the five questions that one might ask an entity that is "wise" in some way should be able to answer. Aliens and channeled guy are fair game. We know already that the convienient rules concerning communications with dead people preclude any useful knowledge whatsoever.

-Fermats last theorem works
-What about a proof of the the number of colors that are necessary to color a map. I recall that while the number is well known a proof has never been provided.
-I suppose that asking any "channeled" spirit what the price of a loaf of bread at any given point in time would work.

What else would the fakers miss?
 
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos said:

And where are all the 9-1-1 calls?

~~ Paul
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They were all routed to Randi's office. But in a power grab, someone there had the wires tapped and...


:rolleyes:
 
I'd probably ask aliens how they got here, then take it from there.
 
Ed said:
What else would the fakers miss?
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Technological questions, I think (but then again, they would have an excuse not to disclose that).

- How do your ships (saucer-shaped) manage to sustain in the air, specially during those weird movements?

- In the remote case they come up with something weird: We only know of action-reaction modes of transportation - what are other ways?

- What's the source of energy for your ships? Or better, whats YOUR personal source of energy during your travels?

- How do you manage G-forces during those amazing jumps we see on video?

- Where are all the pictures? You know, approaching Earth, an eclipse in Mars, other organisms in those planets, etc...

- And the ultimate question for anyone living or just visiting Earth: What's your opinion on Michael Jackson?
 
The story as recounted by Sagan on page 100 of Demon Haunted World was that people sometimes wrote him about 'UFO contact' incidents, and he was invited to 'ask them anything'.

This does not really seem like toying with them to me.

The other question was about the Goldbach Conjecture.
 
Kopji said:
The story as recounted by Sagan on page 100 of Demon Haunted World was that people sometimes wrote him about 'UFO contact' incidents, and he was invited to 'ask them anything'.

This does not really seem like toying with them to me.

The other question was about the Goldbach Conjecture.
Click to expand...

If I recall correctly, Sagan first asked many of the people simple questions, like "What do the aliens think of our music?..." and so on. That got them on the hook. Then he would write again, asking about politics or "love" or something vague that any faker could answer. Having got the fish fully onto his hook, Sagan then YANKED 'em out of the water with those mathematics questions. :D ;)

That's the key, really, if you want to expose one of these "abductees" or "mediums."

Let's say, for example, that you've got a "medium" who claims they can contact the dead. Ask them to initiate a contact with a deceased scientist you know. Once you get the silly questions and platitudes out of the way--and establish the fact the the deceased physicist or engineer or whatever is actually "talking" through the "medium" -- then lower the boom and ask them some scientific questions that the deceased (but not your average fraud) would know.

:D
 
Ed said:
...
-What about a proof of the the number of colors that are necessary to color a map. I recall that while the number is well known a proof has never been provided.
...
Click to expand...
Ed - do you mean The Four Colour Theorem? Already proved, I'm afraid.
 
I dont really see the point of asking for proofs of theorems, which may in fact be undecidable.

One could simply ask something that we know has an answer - like, what are the factors of X, for some large number X. Or "what are a pair of twin primes larger than Y,Y+1" where Y,Y+1 are the largest pair we know of.

One suspects most alien abductees would struggle to get the aliens to pass on the factors of 15...
 
Tez said:
I dont really see the point of asking for proofs of theorems, which may in fact be undecidable.

One could simply ask something that we know has an answer - like, what are the factors of X, for some large number X. Or "what are a pair of twin primes larger than Y,Y+1" where Y,Y+1 are the largest pair we know of.

One suspects most alien abductees would struggle to get the aliens to pass on the factors of 15...
Click to expand...

I doubt most "abductees" or "mediums" without access to a calculator could get past 34x73=
 
Tez said:
I dont really see the point of asking for proofs of theorems, which may in fact be undecidable.

One could simply ask something that we know has an answer - like, what are the factors of X, for some large number X. Or "what are a pair of twin primes larger than Y,Y+1" where Y,Y+1 are the largest pair we know of.

One suspects most alien abductees would struggle to get the aliens to pass on the factors of 15...
Click to expand...
Yup - that would do it.
Alternatively (or as well) get them to factorise a nice big number which is the product of two large primes.
 
Ask the abductees to get the Aliens to give them the valie of Pi... to an infinite number of decimal places.
 
Segnosaur said:
Ask the abductees to get the Aliens to give them the valie of Pi... to an infinite number of decimal places.
Click to expand...

But that would take forever!
 
Have any skeptics ever tried this in a real-life situation? Like setting up a medium (say, Silvia Browne) while they are on a TV show? You could give a few details about your "Grandpa," for example. Mention that he was a pilot or an engineer. Get the medium to "establish a connection", shoot a couple of easy but rather specific questions at them. Then, once they have established that they can indeed ask questions and get answers, LOWER THE BOOM with a difficult aviation or engineering question. :biggrin:

Has anyone seen this happen? How did the "medium" wiggle out of it?
 
UnTrickaBLe said:


I doubt most "abductees" or "mediums" without access to a calculator could get past 34x73=
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Some of them are bound to know how to program. Even in basic on an old comador I was able to crack factors a large as 10459. Of course this aproach does give you the abaitly to crack pretty much every code on the planet....
 
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