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Questions for "Evolutionary Christians"

Darwin

Critical Thinker
D
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
288
That is,scientifically literate xians with a taste for evolutionary biology.
These thoughts have bothered me a while.Assuming that there are evolutionist xians hanging around at the board ("liberal christians"?) I´d like to hear you answering some of my questions about how evolution and philosophy of yours,do mix.I apologize for any misunderstanding that may result from my relative ignorance of christianity itself.
For the rest of the board (majority?) do help me out here,and extend on the subject.
Let´s see,I hope you can follow me here (late being,my thinking may appear confused)

Do you think evolution was directed,guided by the hand of God?
I mean,do you think evolution was meant to produce human beings (since it would have been the way God created) ?
If you go "yes",I´d like to know whether you consider this kind of a view of evolution as "progressive"? The old misinterpretation of evolution inevitably striving for perfection,which would be humans,for some.How about the idea that should we rewind the "tape of life",there might not be nothing like us?

Since humans descend from animals (as far as I see,this is a touch piece to swallow for many) do you think that a clear line should be drawn between "animals and man (which would now inevitably be,another species of animals)".
What about soul? Would this require any life,the great string of DNA,to be either entirely with or without soul?
If only humans can have soul (opposed to such living genetical relatives as chimps) at which point does the soul step in?

What about human habit of eating meat to grow larger brain,which could be used,as a modern day equivalent for the old argument concerning the hierarchy of creation ("clearly man is superior,with brains such efficient") ?
Considering that homo sapiens might be just another predator,technically unable to be aware of God,without such "help"?

What about future evolution? Should we still believe in the immutability of the species,which now has to be considered obsolete? I´m trying to say that if evolution was "guided" by an invisible hand,leading to us as an important example,what does future evolution mean? While one human life is not enough to observe macroevolution,we know that it goes on.
An estimated age of survival for a single species would be a few million years (hard to predict).Would future evolution also be guided by God? Unless we assume ourselves to be some kind of a perfection of it,therefore rendered "immutable" (again,boiling down to the fallacy of progress)

(I´ll quit for now,try to elaborate on this later,keeping possible mistakes and confusion in mind)
 
Yahweh said:

It doesnt count unless he dies and ressurrects 3 days later (on Easter more specifically).
Click to expand...

So Mithras doesn't count now?
 
How do Christians reconcile evolution and Christianity? Why, they just add a lot of superfluous entities.

Pretty ironic, seeing as if we added superfluous entities we could just throw out evolution altogether....
 
How do Christians reconcile Christianity and evolution?

Well, I have heard someone state it this way:


The Bible is simply a book of stories inspired by, but not written by, god.

The idea is that we are all god's children adn that our predecessors (ie homo habilus and various others whose names I can't remember, scince I am a philosopher, not a palentologist) were god's children in their infancy. As we have grown up, we have become more and more god-like. We are currently entering our "teen-age" years. Evenmtually, we will all become gods ourselves.


Now, as a philosopher, I find this idea interesting, although entirely unlikely, since it poses the belief that there is a god and that we are that god's children. I find it more likely that were are here because we have not found anything better to do.

Hey, I said I was a philosopher. I never said I was a GOOD philosopher!
 
Some Friggin Guy said:
How do Christians reconcile Christianity and evolution?

Well, I have heard someone state it this way:


The Bible is simply a book of stories inspired by, but not written by, god.
Click to expand...
I try to look at it this way: The bible is not to be taken literally, but as a book of fables to teach people how to live morally and love one another.

The idea is that we are all god's children adn that our predecessors (ie homo habilus and various others whose names I can't remember, scince I am a philosopher, not a palentologist) were god's children in their infancy. As we have grown up, we have become more and more god-like. We are currently entering our "teen-age" years. Evenmtually, we will all become gods ourselves.
Click to expand...
Scientology... ITS GONNA GET YOU AND YOUR LITTLE FRIENDS IN YOUR SLEEP!

Now, as a philosopher, I find this idea interesting, although entirely unlikely, since it poses the belief that there is a god and that we are that god's children. I find it more likely that were are here because we have not found anything better to do.
Click to expand...
People are always trying to apply a higher meaning and purpose to life... some even suggest that we are here to serve god, well, I'm happy to say that I SERVE NO ONE! I REFUSE TO BOW DOWN! Sorry 'bout that, I have many psychological issues that stem from my youth.

Hey, I said I was a philosopher. I never said I was a GOOD philosopher!
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The Illogical Philosopher, interesting concept. Kinda like the Bad Astronomer...

Oh, by the way, Hi, I'm Philosopher Yahweh. :)
 
Hello, Yahweh (wow, I never thought I would ever use that combination of words! Guess the local priest in my home town may have been right....nah!)

You said this (which I'm sure you remember, but I love the quote feature.)

The Illogical Philosopher, interesting concept.
Click to expand...

Actually, it is a pretty interesting concept. The way I figure it, only by allowing ourselves to think illogically and realize it, can we truly understand the importance of logic in our thinking.

But, then again, I think the world would be a much happier place if everyone, every day, went up to a random person and gave that person a fish-stick.
 
Thank you all. (Thanks,Yahweh)

I must confess that I expected some more responses dealing with my questions,in particular.
I´ll keep the faith.
 
I'm sure people would describe me as a "Cafeteria Christian". But my take on evolution, and the big picture is the following. God created the laws of the universe, the "Big Bang" occurred, and God waited for a sentient being to develop. Then God attempted to communicate with this creature.

Whether it was all chance, or God helped it along a little, I have no idea. And I do believe if we reran the tape these sentient beings might very well be different. And there may be countless others throughout the universe.

To me, the soul is my consciousness. I just can't conceive of awareness after death. But in the past few years, God has really made an effort to reach to me. He probably has all along, but I've only been receptive recently. If he can reach me, perhaps there are many things I don't understand (Understatement!).

I have no patience with YEC's. God is so technically beyond our imagination, that I cannot fathom why there would be a devil, or hell. Sure , I am often temped by sin, but that is part of human nature. Maybe God tests us, but I don't believe it is Satan.

I know my response is only my take. And it is evolving. It's difficult to explain why I call myself a Christian. But God's interactions with me do seem to be associated with the Christian Church. And I totally admire Jesus. And I admit there is so much I don't understand.
 
I'm afraid I can't answer the questions since I'm not someone Darwin is adressing. However ...
Darwin said:
Since humans descend from animals (as far as I see,this is a touch piece to swallow for many) do you think that a clear line should be drawn between "animals and man (which would now inevitably be,another species of animals)".
Click to expand...
Humans are not descended from animals. We are animals, and like all present examples, the result of the evolutionary process (which is ongoing).
 
Well, so far the attempts to answer the questions by people who belive in God seem to be based on or variations of the anthropic principle. They can also be traced back to platonic concepts of God as a distant deity that has little or no direct contact with his/her/its creation. This is also valid for many people I know personally and for some answers I read here.

At least they do not state the the bible is a litteral truth, with all the implications that such a declaration would have.

Some attempts are... Well, hard for me to digest. For example, a statement that God did this or that. Based on what can such a bold statement be done?
 
I'm not a Christian, but I still can postulate a God that does nothing but observe, record, and know our names.

And maybe God's knowledge of me is enough to be immortal, in some form.
 
"Humans are not descended from animals. We are animals, and like all present examples, the result of the evolutionary process (which is ongoing)."

That´s obvious (except that humans did descend-) I never said that humans are not animals,I think I´ll leave that to creationists.


The lack of responses,and questions such as those that I raised could,perhaps,be among the reasons that so many xians still reject evolution?
I just thought that perhaps theistic evolution (as it is called) might be closer to Lamarckian than Darwinian evolution,anyone catch my idea?
 
DialecticMaterialist said:
How do Christians reconcile evolution and Christianity? Why, they just add a lot of superfluous entities.

Pretty ironic, seeing as if we added superfluous entities we could just throw out evolution altogether....
Click to expand...
You meet a shifty-eyed character on the streets of New York.

Hey bud: I'll sell you this genuin Rolex watch and a deed to the Brooklyn Bridge for $50.

You can't fool me, that's not a genuine Rolex.

OK, fuggedabout da watch - I'll sell you the bridge alone for $60.

Deal!
 
The guy who wrote the 29 Evidences essay on Talk Origins is a Christian. You might dash an e-mail off to him as he does a good job explaining how he reconciles his faith with being a biologist.
 
Darwin said:

The lack of responses,and questions such as those that I raised could,perhaps,be among the reasons that so many xians still reject evolution?
I just thought that perhaps theistic evolution (as it is called) might be closer to Lamarckian than Darwinian evolution,anyone catch my idea?
Click to expand...

Well. I tried to answer the questions but I couldn't.
Many people that believe in God including myself and have accepted evolution wouldn't be able to answer this questionnaire. I am not explaining the reason because I do not want to derail your thread, if you are interested though I can explain myself.

Just a hint. Your whole concept is an oxymoron because the Christian that has accepted that it wasn't God who created the Universe and the beings he doesn't accept that God " guided" either Evolution or the Laws of Universe.

People who have arrived to believe that God didn't create anything are wondering in which point of the evolution, human realized the existence of God. That is the question and not the vice verca.

And one more think. Maybe there is a problem with the terminology too. I do not know if someone who accepts Evolution can call himself a Christian, I mean that personally this is one of the reasons I do not call myself a Christian although I believe in God.

Unrepentant Sinner's idea sounds good to me. Now I am reading Michael Shermer's book " Why we believe" and he has a lot of stuff for you, maybe you would like to have a look at this book.
 
A key point is how much of the sacred text the person takes as true and/or how he/she interprets the texts.

As completely being litteral truth or as a collection of texts containing historical facts told by the perspective of a religious person, stories (true ones, miths, fictional ones- all of them intended to provide moral guidelines), texts inspired -directly or indirectly- by a deity and all the possible intermediate members in this complex "solid solution".

So, people will find a way to conciliate evolution (various levels degrees or concepts of guided evolution, anthropic priciple, etc), their religion (regardless of what it is) and their personal concepts of God.

Can still they be called christians, muslims, jews or anything else? Surely they belive so. And surely some integrants of their own religions will also accept them while others will not.
 
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