Questions About Deep Throat

[BPSCG]

Can anyone tell me how accurate this is?

Now that Woodward and Felt are both claiming Felt was Deep Throat, the jig is up. The fictional Deep Throat knew things Felt could not possibly have known, such as the 18 1/2-minute gap on one of the White House tapes. Only six people knew about the gap when Woodward reported it. All of them worked at the White House. Felt not only didn't work at the White House, but when the story broke, he also didn't even work at the FBI anymore.

and

Deep Throat was a smoker and heavy drinker, neither of which describes Mark Felt.

and

Woodward claimed he signaled Deep Throat by moving a red flag in a flowerpot to the back of his balcony and that Deep Throat signaled him by drawing the hands of a clock in Woodward's New York Times.

But in his 1993 book, Deep Truth: The Lives of Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein Adrian Havill did something it had occurred to no one else to do: He looked at Woodward's old apartment!

Havill found that Woodward had a sixth-floor interior apartment that could not be seen from the street. Even from the back of the apartment complex, the balcony was too high for any flowerpot to be seen. So unless there was a "second flowerpot," visible from a nearby grassy knoll, the red flag in the flowerpot story is ... well, full of red flags.

And

In addition, newspapers were not delivered door-to-door in Woodward's apartment building but were left in a stack in the lobby. Deep Throat could not have known which newspaper Woodward would pick up.

A lot of you are going to hate the source for all this, but let's not get into killing the messenger. I'm not saying these claims are accurate; I'm saying I don't know, and I'd like to know if someone can either substantiate them or rebut them.

Thanks.

 

[Upchurch]

Assuming it is accurate, I can think of a perfectly reasonable explanation for all but the first quote: Woodward and Bernstein gave false information about the identity of and their relationship with their secret informant in order to throw investigators off the trail.

The first one, though, I have no clue, assuming it is accurate. Given Coulter's track record, I wouldn't even hazard a guess based on this little bit of information.

 

[Ian Osborne]

The first one, though, I have no clue, assuming it is accurate. Given Coulter's track record, I wouldn't even hazard a guess based on this little bit of information.

Maybe Deep Throat had his own Deep Throat within the White House? The information could've been passed to Felt, casually or otherwise, and then second-hand to Woodward and Bernstein?

 

[Upchurch]

Maybe Deep Throat had his own Deep Throat within the White House? The information could've been passed to Felt, casually or otherwise, and then second-hand to Woodward and Bernstein?

Or he was actively spying on the White House in some unknown manner. Who knows?

I'm sure the inevitable upcoming book on the subject will answer some questions and raise others.

 

[BPSCG]

I haven't followed this business as closely as some people. These explanations certainly are plausible; does anyone know if Woodstein have addressed Coulter's points, e.g., "Yes, we deliberately seeded false clues in our book, to protect Deep Throat's identity"?

 

[Upchurch]

Secrecy was key

Many were dubious of these cloak and dagger methods. Adrian Havill investigated these claims for his 1993 biography of Woodward and Bernstein and found them to be factually impossible. He noted that Woodward's apartment 617 at 1718 P Street, Northwest, in Washington faced an interior courtyard and was not visible from the street. Havill said anyone regularly checking the balcony, as Deep Throat was said to have done daily, would have been spotted. Havill also said that copies of The Times were not delivered to individual apartments but delivered in an unaddressed stack at the building's reception desk. There would have been no way to know which copy was intended for Woodward.

Woodward, however, has since claimed that in the early 1970s the interior courtyard was an alleyway and had not yet been bricked off, and that his balcony was visible from street level to passing pedestrians. It was also visible, Woodward conjectured, to anyone from the FBI surveilling nearby embassies. Also revealed was the fact that Woodward's copy of the New York Times had his apartment number indicated on it. Former neighbor Herman Knippenberg stated that Woodward would sometimes come to his door looking for his marked copy of the Times, claiming "I like to have it in mint condition and I like to have my own copy" [1] (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10328832).

Further, while Woodward in his book stressed these precautions, he also admits to calling Deep Throat on the telephone at his home.

 

[Upchurch]

Can't find anything about the smoking and drinking other than a Slate article in which the author agrees that it is a mischaracterization. Maybe it was.

 

[Cleon]

I haven't followed this business as closely as some people. These explanations certainly are plausible; does anyone know if Woodstein have addressed Coulter's points, e.g., "Yes, we deliberately seeded false clues in our book, to protect Deep Throat's identity"?

I imagine Woodward & Bernstein are as concerned with addressing Coulter's points as they are with helping the first koala bear scale Mt. Everest.

In any event, who cares? Is Coulter seriously saying that Felt wasn't Deep Throat? If he wasn't, who was? And why would Woodstein lie about it? In the past, they've denied or ignored other theories about "Deep Throat." Why confirm this one if it isn't true?

 

[BPSCG]

I imagine Woodward & Bernstein are as concerned with addressing Coulter's points as they are with helping the first koala bear scale Mt. Everest.

But they would be very concerned with protecting their own credibility. I thought these were fair questions, and evidently, so did the guy who raised them in the first place. Again, hate the source of the questions if you like, but don't kill the messenger for asking them.

In any event, who cares? Is Coulter seriously saying that Felt wasn't Deep Throat?

No. If you'd read her column, you'd see that what she's saying is that it's implausible that Felt is the sole "Deep Throat", that she believes DT is a composite, as Felt couldn't have known about the 18-1/2 minute tape gap, and there are other discrepancies.

Upchurch's post gives some answers. Yours is just an attempt to "kill the messenger", which I was hoping we could dispense with.

 

[Cleon]

Yours is just an attempt to "kill the messenger", which I was hoping we could dispense with.

No, it was an attempt to point out that this is a ridiculous line of questioning. See, you didn't bother to quote some key questions I asked:

If he wasn't, who was? And why would Woodstein lie about it? In the past, they've denied or ignored other theories about "Deep Throat." Why confirm this one if it isn't true?

 

[Luke T.]

Can anyone tell me how accurate this is?

Now that Woodward and Felt are both claiming Felt was Deep Throat, the jig is up. The fictional Deep Throat knew things Felt could not possibly have known, such as the 18 1/2-minute gap on one of the White House tapes. Only six people knew about the gap when Woodward reported it. All of them worked at the White House. Felt not only didn't work at the White House, but when the story broke, he also didn't even work at the FBI anymore.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Luke T. has left the building.

 

[DaChew]

I'm not sure I understand why it makes a difference whether DT was a single person or a composite of people. Coulter doesn't seem to say why that might be important.

 

[Brown]

A speculation (printed in Newsweek) suggested that Felt used to be a heavy smoker, and had told his family he'd quit. During the stress of Watergate, however, he reverted to the practice but did not tell his family.

(I have known some people like this. One of my best friends' father supposedly "quit" smoking, but in fact he smoked frequently at his office and never at home, and kept that secret from his family for over 20 years.)

In response to this Newsweek speculation based upon an unnamed source, there was more rioting in Afghanistan today.

It would not surprise me if Woodward changes his story a bit about what information or advice that he actualy received from Felt. He has changed his story at least once already. As I discussed in this thread, Woodward was shocked when it was pointed out to him that the line "Follow the money" in the movie "All the President's Men" is not in the book upon which the movie was based.

Woodward told Daniel Schorr that the line "Follow the money" was indeed uttered by Deep Throat, even though Woodward's earlier and more comprehensive version of the story omitted this quote.

 

[Brown]

Originally posted by me
As I discussed in this thread, Woodward was shocked when it was pointed out to him that the line "Follow the money" in the movie "All the President's Men" is not in the book upon which the movie was based.

Woodward told Daniel Schorr that the line "Follow the money" was indeed uttered by Deep Throat, even though Woodward's earlier and more comprehensive version of the story omitted this quote.

Columnist Frank Rich's most recent column (reg. req'd, limited time) makes mention of this anomaly:

THE morning the Deep Throat story broke, the voice on my answering machine was as raspy as Hal Holbrook's. "I just want you to remember that I wrote 'Follow the money,' " said my caller. "I want to know if anybody will give me credit. Watch for the accuracy of the media!"

The voice belonged to my friend William Goldman, who wrote the movie "All the President's Men." His words proved more than a little prescient. As if on cue, journalists everywhere - from The New York Times to The Economist to The Washington Post itself - would soon start attributing this classic line of dialogue to the newly unmasked Deep Throat, W. Mark Felt. But the line was not in Woodward and Bernstein's book or in The Post's Watergate reportage or in Bob Woodward's contemporaneous notes. It was the invention of the author of "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid," "Marathon Man" and "The Princess Bride."

This does not mean that Felt did not utter the famous phrase or its sentiment; but it does mean that the author of the movie screenplay recognizes that the line was his. It should be noted, however, that Goldman deliberately wrote his screenplay to be very true to the book and very true to history, and it is possible that the sentiment of the line came from communications with Woodward, which may explain why Woodward thought that he had included the line in the book.

 

[billydkid]

what I don't get

I saw a forum on C-Span about anonymous sources with constant referrals to deep throat as an anonymous source. If I understand correctly, W and B didn't use deep throat in their stories as in "An anonymous White House source said....". They used info from deep throat to get the stories they published. He never gave them stories, he told them how to find the stories and what stories to look for. That is not the same as being an anonymous source. Maybe in reference to the book they wrote he was an anonymous source, but not in regard to the Watergate news stories. If I am correct then it is a sloppy usage of the expression "anonymous source".

 

[Luke T.]

I'm not sure I understand why it makes a difference whether DT was a single person or a composite of people. Coulter doesn't seem to say why that might be important.

It's important because it could mean Woodstein made things up.

 

[Atlas]

In addition, newspapers were not delivered door-to-door in Woodward's apartment building but were left in a stack in the lobby. Deep Throat could not have known which newspaper Woodward would pick up.

I've lived in apartments in Minneapolis and Saint Paul. Ordinarily my newspaper was delivered to my door. But on days when a substitute delivered the papers they were always left in the security entrance area.

On those days, in black magic marker, the paper carrier had written an apartment number on each paper.

Now this ain't the big city but I can easily imagine such a custom being employed elsewhere. People might see a stack of papers as 'Free, Take one' but not if they were identified with someone else's apartment number.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Can anyone tell me how accurate this is?

and

and

And


A lot of you are going to hate the source for all this, but let's not get into killing the messenger. I'm not saying these claims are accurate; I'm saying I don't know, and I'd like to know if someone can either substantiate them or rebut them.

Thanks.

Two words: Ann Coulter

It's not accurate.