Question About the WTC Core Collapse

[Mr.Herbert]

Hello,

This is my first post & thread so please take it easy on me! For the past year I have been working for the CIA, FBI, FEMA, NIST, and the Bush administration. The location of my work is not classified as I am well known at the ATS site. To them, I am the beast... the shill..the troll...whatever the favorite term for the day is to label someone with common sense.

My problem, i am not at all good with physics and engineering. I had a question asked of me in regards to the last part of the core than remained standing for a short time after the collapse. I was asked WHY it fell straight down after the global collapse had occurred and why it didn't fall "over". I really don't have an educated guess as to how or why.

Not sure if this has ever been brought up in here. I do come in here often to read the threads, but don't recall ever seeing any such question.

Any help you could give me would be much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[uk_dave]

Why should it have fallen over?

For it to fall to one side or another it would have to pivot about a point near to ground level. Since there was several storeys of debris piled up there and the lower columns were still connected to the foundations, it's hard to see how it could pivot.

However, since the core (just like all of the steel frame), was made up of lengths of steel with mechanical fixings at the top and bottom, it's not hard to imagine that the tremendous forces applied to these sections during the collapse would have weakened those connections, perhaps more so in some areas than in others.

By causing a weakening of the connections, we are left with a massive vertical load which would be forcing the weakest connections to move out of upright sufficient for the vertical steel to break loose and fall vertically.

If people want to imagine the columns are all one continuous piece of steel from foundation to roof, that's their problem.

 

[Miragememories]

Why should it have fallen over?

For it to fall to one side or another it would have to pivot about a point near to ground level. Since there was several storeys of debris piled up there and the lower columns were still connected to the foundations, it's hard to see how it could pivot.

However, since the core (just like all of the steel frame), was made up of lengths of steel with mechanical fixings at the top and bottom, it's not hard to imagine that the tremendous forces applied to these sections during the collapse would have weakened those connections, perhaps more so in some areas than in others.

By causing a weakening of the connections, we are left with a massive vertical load which would be forcing the weakest connections to move out of upright sufficient for the vertical steel to break loose and fall vertically.

If people want to imagine the columns are all one continuous piece of steel from foundation to roof, that's their problem.

Of course for the remaining core to all drop straight down at the same time without toppling, would require simultaneous removal of all remaining support at the same time.

Hmm...

MM

 

[A W Smith]

gravity pulls straight down. The debris that fell surrounding the core no doubt damaged the columns near the bottom. all that would have to happen is a load transfer to adjacent columns and they would fail progressively. since the core is a hollow grid of columns and not solid like a tree. there exists no fulcrum to support the core long enough for it to fall sideways. anything that would even momentarily hold as a fulcrum would instantly fail as its load was multiplied by failure of adjacent columns.

To answer their next question. Which I know is coming. No the spire steel didn't turn to "dust" as seen in some videos. When It fell it shed the debris it collected from the surrounding floors that piled onto the core floor areas.

 

[beachnut]

Of course for the remaining core to all drop straight down at the same time without toppling, would require simultaneous removal of all remaining support at the same time.

Hmm...

MM

Thank you for the CTer view of magic thermite bolts. Good job.

Since the core was not made to support lateral loads the 500 to 700 foot section of core was ready to come down with the wind. With the Shell gone the core was without major lateral support. Since gravity acts on earth in one direction; the core followed the force on it. Down.

In the magic world of CT woo it was a beam weapon vaporized it, thermite charges did it but they were invisible, a small nuke took it down, a dog did it, what ever you will get the same junk from MM and other truthers who would be hard pressed to find a fact on 9/11.

 

[Mr.Herbert]

Thank you!
And yes... the baseball sized mini nukes was brought up!! lmfao

 

[beachnut]

gravity pulls straight down. The debris that fell surrounding the core no doubt damaged the columns near the bottom. all that would have to happen is a load transfer to adjacent columns and they would fail progressively. since the core is a hollow grid of columns and not solid like a tree. there exists no fulcrum to support the core long enough for it to fall sideways. anything that would even momentarily hold as a fulcrum would instantly fail as its load was multiplied by failure of adjacent columns.

To answer their next question. Which I know is coming. No the spire steel didn't turn to "dust" as seen in some videos. When It fell it shed the debris it collected from the surrounding floors that piled onto the core floor areas.

with a total of 248 tons of TNT energy from the gravity collapse in each tower, the damage was extensive as seen. The standing sections were like a ruler that has sections with brass terminals, it flips end on end. The sections had to be damaged and fell straigh down with gravity as you say. The sections hidden in the collapse debris could of finally folded in sections in to the ground.

Of course the magic stuff is just camera blur, but how many times have I seen idiots say it vaporized.

 

[Rahne Everson]

Of course for the remaining core to all drop straight down at the same time without toppling, would require simultaneous removal of all remaining support at the same time.

Hmm...

If people want to imagine the columns are all one continuous piece of steel from foundation to roof, that's their problem.

HMM...

 

[maccy]

The core wasn't a single object like a tree, it was 47 separate steel box columns. They would have been severely damaged by the rest of the building that fell on them and have lost the lateral support of the perimeter columns (via the hat truss). I imagine that most of the floors in the core area would have been knocked out by the collapse. The weakest point of the box columns is likely to be where they were joined together - so I can imagine each of the columns that remained standing after the main collapse would fail and a different point and fall in a different way. Some indeed, may have fallen sideways, but they whole core would not have fallen in the same direction and stayed intact while falling (ie toppling like a tree). Add the dust and smoke and you have the remnants of a core that falls pretty much straight down, as far as anybody can tell.

Remember as well, that the scale of the buildings is huge. I think people expect them to behave as a much smaller building (or even a much smaller solid object) would behave.

The question to fire back: how many controlled demolitions have you seen where the building collapses from the top down and part of the core is left standing for a few seconds?

 

[Myriad]

Here's a useful link: The Falling Chimney Web Page.. You're looking at the "shear stress" scenario (the Detroit chimney, on the left) where breakage occurs near the base.

The difference is that the WTC core was not designed to be self-supporting, unlike freestanding chimneys, so its resistance to shear, compared to its mass, was considerably less. Thus the base breaks at a much closer angle to vertical, after only a few degrees of tilt at most, before any appreciable lateral movement or angular acceleration has had a chance to occur. Once the base breaks off (or more likely, crumbles, in any case no longer supporting the weight above it), the gravitational acceleration of the upper part, straight down, happens much faster than any continued rotation from rotational inertia can tilt it farther sideways (and there's no more torque to further accelerate the rotation). As the bottom of the upper part hits the ground, it breaks again from shear stress which is now even greater due to the downward velocity.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[jhunter1163]

CT nuts have no grasp of physics at all. They know as much about inertia as they do about similes.

ETA: Am I the only one who finds Rahne's avatar a bit disturbing?

 

[Rahne Everson]

CT nuts have no grasp of physics at all. They know as much about inertia as they do about similes.

ETA: Am I the only one who finds Rahne's avatar a bit disturbing?

Awww, I am a bit disturbing, thank you

 

[A W Smith]

ETA: Am I the only one who finds Rahne's avatar a bit disturbing?

You mean.. Thats NOT a left arm?

 

[GlennB]

Of course for the remaining core to all drop straight down at the same time without toppling, would require simultaneous removal of all remaining support at the same time.

Hmm...

MM

Apart from a quite stunning ignorance of physics and building structure, you also demonstrate here your ignorance of your own CD theory. Which is - that the core was CD'd in advance of the global collapse to facilitate the fall of both Towers.

And yet the lower sections of both cores were the last parts to fall?

Get your act together mm. Logic isn't so hard really.

 

[wahrheit]

You mean.. Thats NOT a left arm?

I truly hope it is. Unless you want a third leg growing out of your belly button.

 

[scooby]

It's like Hogwarts this place ... one minute it can't pivot ...

Why should it have fallen over?

For it to fall to one side or another it would have to pivot about a point near to ground level. Since there was several storeys of debris piled up there and the lower columns were still connected to the foundations, it's hard to see how it could pivot.

... the next it needs to fall, and "Hey Presto!" - weak joints everywhere ...

However, since the core (just like all of the steel frame), was made up of lengths of steel with mechanical fixings at the top and bottom, it's not hard to imagine that the tremendous forces applied to these sections during the collapse would have weakened those connections, perhaps more so in some areas than in others.

Why is it hard to see it pivoting at a weak joint dave?

 

[kookbreaker]

It's like Hogwarts this place ... one minute it can't pivot ...



... the next it needs to fall, and "Hey Presto!" - weak joints everywhere ...



Why is it hard to see it pivoting at a weak joint dave?

Mass, mass, and mass.

Geez. This is desperation straw grabbing.

 

[scooby]

Mass, mass, and mass.

Geez. This is desperation straw grabbing.

Thank you for providing that while Dave's thinking, is it supposed to mean something?

 

[Miragememories]

What remained of the core...and there obviously wasn't much, still had a tenuous linkage.

Vertical structures brought down by natural events tend to topple unless engineered to do otherwise.

Keep living in that fantasy land you folks. You can run all you want but you can't hide. I'm sure it feels safe having the "baaa" support but the truth is outside of JREF and you are living on borrowed time.

MM

 

[scooby]

What remained of the core...and there obviously wasn't much, still had a tenuous linkage.

Vertical structures brought down by natural events tend to topple unless engineered to do otherwise.

Keep living in that fantasy land you folks. You can run all you want but you can't hide. I'm sure it feels safe having the "baaa" support but the truth is outside of JREF and you are living on borrowed time.

MM

Now that's what I call a Skeptic.