quantum mechanics and god

andyandy

anthropomorphic ape
andyandy
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any views on entanglement and "awareness" on a subatomic level? i like how that fits into ideas of reincarnation.....

Quantum entanglement at its simplest is taking two particles, combining them (don't ask me how....) and then seperating them.....

now here's the remarkable part - you can move one of these particles to Texas, and the other to New York....as far away as you like.....

and.....if you make the particle in Texas spin clockwise - the one in New York will start to do the same......

wow! you can create a bond between particles.....whatever you want to call it - telepathy, shared conciousness, awareness - that's pretty amazing.
Theoretically that means that if one of these entangled particles could be re-inserted into say one of my atoms (not that that's possible at the moment...) and the other entangeled particle was inserted into one of my friends atoms....then we would have a connection on the subatomic level....wow....

when we die, all our atoms are "recycled" back into the universe....and will go on to form parts of other life at some point in the future....now
if atoms are capable of self-awareness then the whole universe could be regarded as one giant shared conciousness.....maybe......:) :) :)

the higgs field is another interesting theory for scientists (and theologists).....

you have a postulated field which permeates the whole of space time..... Without the higgs field no particles would have any mass.... and it's this field therefore that makes the universe possible....

something which is omnipresent and without which the universe could not exist.....hmmm sounds familiar :) :)
 
andyandy said:
any views on entanglement and "awareness" on a subatomic level?
Click to expand...

Lots.

i like how that fits into ideas of reincarnation.....
Click to expand...

It doesn't.

If you know enough quantum mechanics to understand the math, it has no theological or paranormal implications whatsoever.

In particular, the scenario you describe is not scientifically accurate. You don't take two particles and "combine" them, but they are created in an "entangled" state.

Really, it's not that much more interesting than if I were to shuffle a deck of cards and then deal half of the cards to you. I can stay in New York, and mail your half to you in Texas. But when I look at my half of the cards, I know that if I have the ace of spades, you don't -- and similarly, if I don't have the three of clubs, you do.

But I can't "create a bond" between two already existing decks, and I can't manipulate our shared deck at my end to communicate anything to you at yours.
 
Unless you are too small to be observed you should not worry about applying QM to yourself...
 
andyandy said:
any views on entanglement and "awareness" on a subatomic level? i like how that fits into ideas of reincarnation.....

Quantum entanglement at its simplest is taking two particles, combining them (don't ask me how....) and then seperating them.....

now here's the remarkable part - you can move one of these particles to Texas, and the other to New York....as far away as you like.....

and.....if you make the particle in Texas spin clockwise - the one in New York will start to do the same......

wow! you can create a bond between particles.....whatever you want to call it - telepathy, shared conciousness, awareness - that's pretty amazing.
Theoretically that means that if one of these entangled particles could be re-inserted into say one of my atoms (not that that's possible at the moment...) and the other entangeled particle was inserted into one of my friends atoms....then we would have a connection on the subatomic level....wow....

when we die, all our atoms are "recycled" back into the universe....and will go on to form parts of other life at some point in the future....now
if atoms are capable of self-awareness then the whole universe could be regarded as one giant shared conciousness.....maybe......:) :) :)

the higgs field is another interesting theory for scientists (and theologists).....

you have a postulated field which permeates the whole of space time..... Without the higgs field no particles would have any mass.... and it's this field therefore that makes the universe possible....

something which is omnipresent and without which the universe could not exist.....hmmm sounds familiar :) :)
Click to expand...

Hi, Amy.
 
As no one yet knows how the subjective perceptual experience arises out of common matter "out there", hypothesizing this or that particle causes it doesn't really give us any additional information. "How to get there from here" is exactly the problem. Note that the religious proposing a spiritual realm just pushes it off one extra layer -- how do the "physics" of this spiritual realm operate?
 
Quantum entanglement at its simplest is taking two particles, combining them (don't ask me how....) and then seperating them.....
Click to expand...

No it isn't. Entangled particles are created together (see electron/positron pair production or parametric downconversion in non-linear optics.)

As ever, if you try and understand the implications of quantum mechanics without the mathmatical framework then you can come to naive conclusions. The quantum no cloning theorem (an offshoot of the uncertainty principle - one of the central building blocks of quantum theory) will tell you that you can't have separately measurable states in a quantum mechanically entangled system, so the system you describe is forbidden.

you have a postulated field which permeates the whole of space time..... Without the higgs field no particles would have any mass.... and it's this field therefore that makes the universe possible....

something which is omnipresent and without which the universe could not exist.....hmmm sounds familiar
Click to expand...

So are you arguing that the Higgs field/particle is God itself? If that's how you want to define God then good luck to you - it makes a refreshing change from the old man with the beard in the sky who is plotting to send me to hell because I don't sit in a cold dusty church on a Sunday morning. And there is much more of a logical framework to the Higg's field than anything in the bible.
 
andyandy said:
Quantum entanglement at its simplest is taking two particles, combining them (don't ask me how....) and then seperating them.....

now here's the remarkable part - you can move one of these particles to Texas, and the other to New York....as far away as you like.....

and.....if you make the particle in Texas spin clockwise - the one in New York will start to do the same......
Click to expand...

No, it won't.

This is a common misunderstanding of entanglement. As soon as we force the particle in Texas to change it's state, it will no longer be entangled with the one in New York.

Entanglement is only a property of the 'wave function' of a pair of particles. The wave function is the superposition (summation) of all their possible states. When an observation of one of the pair limits the possible states, the function of the other also changes to represent the new information. Note that it is only our information about the probability function (wave function) that has changed, the actual particle has not.

Think of it this way: You have two bags of marbles, one filled with black ones, the other with white ones. In a dark room, you choose two marbles from the same bag, and put them in two boxes. Choosing the marbles from the same bag has 'entangled' the two boxes. Ship one box to Texas and one to New York (like the particles). Now, we only know that the boxes are either black or white, but not which, so their state information can only be expressed as a superposition of the two: grey. As soon as we open the box in Texas and reveal the black marble inside, we also know that the marble in New York is also black. But: the boxes themselves never changed, only the information we knew about them did. Even if the two boxes were opened simultaneously, they would contain the same marble. Does that mean that the boxes needed to communicate faster than the speed of light to decide on their 'blackness'? No, as the boxes were ALREADY either black or white: we just didn’t know which until we looked.
 
Maxwell's Demon said:
As ever, if you try and understand the implications of quantum mechanics without the mathmatical framework then you can come to naive conclusions.
Click to expand...

guilty as charged...i've read popular science books on quantum theory - but not studied it in any scientific detail....:)
If someone could explain quantum entanglement in greater detail, I'd appreciate it....i have a couple of questions....
- how does the entanglement process occur? if it doesnt involve the combination of two seperate particles, what does it involve?
exactly what link exists between entangled particles?
Is entanglement possible on a larger scale (and if so has it been achieved/attempted)?

thanks.....:)



So are you arguing that the Higgs field/particle is God itself? If that's how you want to define God then good luck to you - it makes a refreshing change from the old man with the beard in the sky who is plotting to send me to hell because I don't sit in a cold dusty church on a Sunday morning. And there is much more of a logical framework to the Higg's field than anything in the bible.[/QUOTE]
lol.....i just think if "god" does exist then he's more likely to be something like the higgs field than some anthromorphic projection....:) :) :)
if anyone has any more information about the higgs field i'd be interested to hear that too....:)
 
andyandy said:
any views on entanglement and "awareness" on a subatomic level? i like how that fits into ideas of reincarnation.....
Click to expand...
I hope that you do not get flamed too hard.

The first thing I would say is that there are some places where physics gets weird. That doesn't mean weird in the sense of humans being weird, just in the sense of it won't always make sense, and just when you get some sort of understanding, it turns out to be part of some system that does not make sense, in human terms.

This unfortunately becomes the point where physicists and other humans disagree more than just the physics people disagree.

Apparent Fact One: everything in the universe is joined, every thing in the universe is unique.

Every thing in the universe is part of the universe, their are particles/wave forms in the universe. The particle is a wave at all times, there are times and places where it acts more like a particle, but it is a wave through out. The wave function does not collapse, it remains a wave function throughout. It might intersect like something that makes it look like a particle. It is still a wave.

All things are fundamentally part of each other. Whatever it is that makes something makes something that we call gravity. All things partake of it, all things exhibit these weird properties of mass, dimensions, field behaviors and apparent motion.

Some of these properties may not mean that particles actually are joined , they may be joined they may not. Waveparticles act as though they are joined or avoiding each other. They may use these intermediate forms that pop in and out of the vacuum energy. The universe is full of these virtual particles. They exist in the real sense that they are a possible manifestation of the underlying exchanges between fields. They may or may not exist for indefinite periods of times. They are created /exist in the universe all over the place. These virtual particles exist in space time as we know it. They can be created in particle interaction chambers, they can be created out of the stuff called vacuum which exist between stars.
There are particles that may exit which are left over from the early stages of the universe, they could be strange amorphous things that effect the universe but can not be directly determined at this point. They are these things that fell out of the early universe and are still there. They contain high mass/energy they are also about as large as the universe conceivably.

I really don't understand all the stuff that Epekeke and Ziggurat talk about. But it would seem as though electrons may or may not be bounded by the speed of light. Because they can exist along some very strange ways of thinking about the universe.

The universe behaves as though it is the things that we talk about but that is only the approximation of the universe's behavior. All particlewaves behave as though they are joined or exchange information/fields with each other.

The things in the universe are unique, they partake of each other, but they also behave as though they are unique discreet things that each carry about their own dimensions, mass/inertia, field effects, and quantum behaviors.

The universe acts a although each particle is it's own complete little thing, with all of the basic elements needed to be in the universe. A particle does not exist in the dimensions of the universe, it is though they are there in the wavicle.

The universe acts as though each particle is unique and totally unpredictable.
Quantum entanglement at its simplest is taking two particles, combining them (don't ask me how....) and then separating them.....
Click to expand...
I doubt that one will be explained by me.
now here's the remarkable part - you can move one of these particles to Texas, and the other to New York....as far away as you like.....

and.....if you make the particle in Texas spin clockwise - the one in New York will start to do the same......

wow! you can create a bond between particles.....whatever you want to call it - telepathy, shared consciousness, awareness - that's pretty amazing.
Click to expand...
The 'bond' are there all the time.
Theoretically that means that if one of these entangled particles could be re-inserted into say one of my atoms (not that that's possible at the moment...) and the other entangled particle was inserted into one of my friends atoms....then we would have a connection on the subatomic level....wow....
Click to expand...
That is true all the time. Already, the universe is already joining us on the level of space time. You and your friend are already joined.
You may share the same water, electrons as each other.

It is rather wow, things are joined all the time.
when we die, all our atoms are "recycled" back into the universe....and will go on to form parts of other life at some point in the future....now
if atoms are capable of self-awareness then the whole universe could be regarded as one giant shared consciousness.....maybe......:) :) :)
Click to expand...
So far it seems to be a matter of debate whether the universe exists according to philosophers. Much less consciousness. There is considerable debate amongst philosophers that only consciousness exists.
the higgs field is another interesting theory for scientists (and theologists).....
Click to expand...
The universe is interesting all the time.
you have a postulated field which permeates the whole of space time..... Without the higgs field no particles would have any mass.... and it's this field therefore that makes the universe possible....
Click to expand...
We don't know what makes the universe possible, just the apparent existence of the universe.

Everything in the universe exists, all the time.

No sight of God, yet.
something which is omnipresent and without which the universe could not exist.....hmmm sounds familiar :) :)
Click to expand...

Like death and taxes? Sex and children? reruns of Friends?
 
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andyandy said:
guilty as charged...i've read popular science books on quantum theory - but not studied it in any scientific detail....:)
If someone could explain quantum entanglement in greater detail, I'd appreciate it....i have a couple of questions....
- how does the entanglement process occur? if it doesnt involve the combination of two seperate particles, what does it involve?
exactly what link exists between entangled particles?
Is entanglement possible on a larger scale (and if so has it been achieved/attempted)?

thanks.....:)



So are you arguing that the Higgs field/particle is God itself? If that's how you want to define God then good luck to you - it makes a refreshing change from the old man with the beard in the sky who is plotting to send me to hell because I don't sit in a cold dusty church on a Sunday morning. And there is much more of a logical framework to the Higg's field than anything in the bible.

lol.....i just think if "god" does exist then he's more likely to be something like the higgs field than some anthromorphic projection....:) :) :)
Click to expand...
I prefer my dieties to be female, is the higgs field a good lover?
if anyone has any more information about the higgs field i'd be interested to hear that too....:)
Click to expand...

If two particles are created by physicists at the same timeinsert miracle here then apparently the two particles will exist in a co-joined state where if one of the pair is forced into a determinant quantum state than the other particle is then in the opposite pair states on quantum term when it is observed to be in a detterminant state.

Does the determinant state occur at the point of observation?
yes.

Does the detrminant state occur before or after the creation of the determinat state?
no. The partcile returns to the indeterminant state of the quantum onon-specifc wave form.

Does the transformation of the cojoined particles occur at the point of interactions.
yes.

Do we know what any of this means?
not really.

Have I told you about the Big Band Theory of Creation?
 
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Dancing David said:
If two particles are created by physicists at the same timeinsert miracle here then apparently the two particles will exist in a co-joined state where if one of the pair is forced into a determinant quantum state than the other particle is then in the opposite pair states on quantum term when it is observed to be in a detterminant state.

Does the determinant state occur at the point of observation?
yes.
Click to expand...

I would word this as "Does the determinant state exist at the point of observation?", as we can only tell if a state exists or not when we look.

Does the detrminant state occur before or after the creation of the determinat state?
no. The partcile returns to the indeterminant state of the quantum non-specifc wave form.
Click to expand...

Well, yes and no. The indetermancy of the state exists because we don't know, but we (at this time) cannot say that the particles are not in a specific state. In order to do that, we would have to observe them, at which point we can (again) say that they (at that time) have one definate state.

If we observe a particle at two difrerent times, we can say "It looked like this at those two times". We don't know much about what it was doing inbetween. We can determine various probabilities of it's states in-between, but we don't know whether or not it ever actually achieved any of those. And we as well don't know if it didn't.

Does the transformation of the cojoined particles occur at the point of interactions.
yes.
Click to expand...

If we are talking about the probability functions of the particles, then yes, those do change at the point of interactions, as the relative probability of the possible states has changed.

Do we know what any of this means?
not really.
Click to expand...

I would certainly agree with this as written.
 
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