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Propofol alarm clock!

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"Jackson had trouble sleeping and the official said he enlisted various doctors to administer propofol, relying on the drug like an alarm clock. He would decide what time he wanted to awaken and at the appointed hour a doctor would stop the intravenous drip that delivered the drug, the official said."

Read entire blurb here:
http://tiny.cc/twIxg


But does it have a snooze control?
 
Propofol is interesting since you can administer it little by little for hours and then stop it and the patient will awaken completely within about 30 minutes. It is a very short acting drug.
 
Do you know if anaesthesia can substitute for natural sleep though? I would speculate that it's something rather different, and may not satisfy the body's need for sleep. I wonder if behaviour like this might not simply get you into a worse and worse cycle of insomnia.

I don't imagine there's much chance of a formal controlled trial though!

Rolfe.
 
Actually, from a quick search on Wikipedia, it says that it's not an anesthetic at all and if you want that guy to actually not feel the pain of being cut up, you have to add actual anesthetics. Apparently it does just make someone sleep.
 
It is not just sleep that you need. you also need to enter REM dreaming state, or you go totally nuts. Does the patient experience REM sleep under the influence of this drug?

That may be part of why he might have over-used it.
 
Rolfe said:
Do you know if anaesthesia can substitute for natural sleep though? I would speculate that it's something rather different, and may not satisfy the body's need for sleep. I wonder if behaviour like this might not simply get you into a worse and worse cycle of insomnia.

I don't imagine there's much chance of a formal controlled trial though!

Rolfe.
Click to expand...

That's what's puzzled me about the whole situation. To my knowledge, being under anesthesia does not send you through proper sleep cycles, so how would it make you feel rested? Being unconscious is simply not the same as sleep.

The whole thing is utterly bizarre. (Well, what isn't when we're talking about MJ?)
 
leftysergeant said:
It is not just sleep that you need. you also need to enter REM dreaming state, or you go totally nuts. Does the patient experience REM sleep under the influence of this drug?

That may be part of why he might have over-used it.
Click to expand...

Aye, excellent point there, sarge. Now I'm curious about that too.
 
Rolfe said:
Do you know if anaesthesia can substitute for natural sleep though? I would speculate that it's something rather different, and may not satisfy the body's need for sleep. I wonder if behaviour like this might not simply get you into a worse and worse cycle of insomnia.

I don't imagine there's much chance of a formal controlled trial though!

Rolfe.
Click to expand...

Yeah I don't know. Typically drug induced sleep is not a good replacement for natural sleep although it probably is much better than no sleep. Also if this was a daily (nightly?) thing the long term safety probably hasn't been studied.
:eta I just did an internet search and found there is addiction problems with it and it is most often used/abused to self treat insomnia
 
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HansMustermann said:
Actually, from a quick search on Wikipedia, it says that it's not an anesthetic at all and if you want that guy to actually not feel the pain of being cut up, you have to add actual anesthetics. Apparently it does just make someone sleep.
Click to expand...
It's a dissociative anesthetic.

It dissociates memory and consciousness. You could cut a body up but the reflex based response to pain such as rapid heart rate and blood pressure will go up although the patient will wake up and not remember feeling a thing.

Good stuff. Works well and people wake up so much faster than prior meds.
 
Rolfe said:
Do you know if anaesthesia can substitute for natural sleep though? I would speculate that it's something rather different, and may not satisfy the body's need for sleep. I wonder if behaviour like this might not simply get you into a worse and worse cycle of insomnia.

I don't imagine there's much chance of a formal controlled trial though!

Rolfe.
Click to expand...

Good question.

Propofol is not exactly an anesthetic (pain-killer) but rather acts as a central nervous system (CNS) depressant. This is why it is not on the controlled substances schedule. IIRC, the few recorded instances of abuse involved persons looking to experience NDEs. It is typically used in a hospital operating room environment under the supervision of a team of anesthesiologists with a mechanical ventilator (assisted breathing).

Alcohol, which also acts as a CNS depressant, has a well-documented impact on sleep quality. I can only imagine the result of habitual propofol use.

ETA
I see Dogdoctor has better information about its abuse; sorry for the noise.
 
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paximperium said:
It's a dissociative anesthetic.

It dissociates memory and consciousness. You could cut a body up but the reflex based response to pain such as rapid heart rate and blood pressure will go up although the patient will wake up and not remember feeling a thing.

Good stuff. Works well and people wake up so much faster than prior meds.
Click to expand...


I presume good stuff is meant for proper use in a hospital and not as a sleeping pill on steroids.
 
leonAzul said:
Good question.

Propofol is not exactly an anesthetic (pain-killer)
Click to expand...

Ouch! That is awkward, sorry I didn't take the time to express that more clearly.

paximperium said:
It's a dissociative anesthetic.
Click to expand...

What he said.

dudalb said:
Anyway can we agree that the doctor who gave it to MJ is in a whole lot of trouble?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. At the very least for malpractice. Anesthesiologists, neurologists, and sleep specialists alike would agree that this is a very ill-advised use of this drug.
 
Er, bump?

Isn't this big news today? I heard last night that the doctor had given Jackson 25mg (I think) of propofol at his own request that night after a number of other sedative drugs had "failed to work". That included diazepam (valium).

The doctor said he'd been giving Jackson 50mg profol every night for some time, but was concerned about dependency and had tried to discontinue it. However, stressed by the upcoming concert tour, Jackson had been unable to sleep and had begged for the drugs.

What an idiot. I mean, if you keep anaesthetising a patient with that frequency, yes you are going to kill them. On top of other drugs, yes, way to go!

It does rather show that you can pay for too much healthcare if you have the money. And that employing a doctor just to do what you want can lead to some very bad decisions.

I suspect that doctor is going to jail. Even if he doesn't, he can kiss his medical career goodbye.

Rolfe.
 
I know some benzos have long half lifes. Would the diazepam have still been in his system?
 
This seems to have been all in the same night! The doctor gave him various things, including diazepam, but he still didn't get to sleep and so he begged the doctor to give him the propofol. Inevitably, there would be a cocktail of stuff there.

Rolfe.
 
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