Prison driving Olympic bomber crazy....

[headscratcher4]

http://news.aol.com/topnews/article...s/20061211124809990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

Gee... sorry to hear that. Not.

 

[Upchurch]

Whaddya know? The system works.

 

[drkitten]

Whaddya know? The system works.

I don't know which I find more disturbing.

That someone would apparently design (with your approval) a penitentiary system designed to cause insanity in the inmates

... or that someone could misdesign a penitentiary so badly that it causes insanity in the inmates, and that you nevertheless consider the system to "work."

 

[Cylinder]

This isn't torture?

 

[Elizabeth I]

I don't know which I find more disturbing.

That someone would apparently design (with your approval) a penitentiary system designed to cause insanity in the inmates

... or that someone could misdesign a penitentiary so badly that it causes insanity in the inmates, and that you nevertheless consider the system to "work."

You're kidding, right?

Besides, I don't think "going insane" would be a very long trip for Rudolph.

 

[ponderingturtle]

You're kidding, right?

Besides, I don't think "going insane" would be a very long trip for Rudolph.

Remember his brother after realizing he gave info to the police that would help catch rudolph cut his own hand off. And I believe that this brother was also gay(rudolph bombed a gay night club as well).

Ah looks like those where different brothers.link

 

[ponderingturtle]

I don't know which I find more disturbing.

That someone would apparently design (with your approval) a penitentiary system designed to cause insanity in the inmates

... or that someone could misdesign a penitentiary so badly that it causes insanity in the inmates, and that you nevertheless consider the system to "work."

Well Rudolph is probably one of the few people to be sent to a super max dirrectly. Normaly it is because of violence in prison that people end up in super max.

As for what purpose they serve, well would it be better to put him in general population and have someone kill him because they want the prestigue? That would be concidered unacceptable as well.

How should he be handeled? How should violent inmates be handeled?

 

[Upchurch]

I don't know which I find more disturbing.

That someone would apparently design (with your approval) a penitentiary system designed to cause insanity in the inmates

... or that someone could misdesign a penitentiary so badly that it causes insanity in the inmates, and that you nevertheless consider the system to "work."

Well, first, I don't believe this particular inmate's assessment of the penitentiary system. I do believe that he does not want to be there. Second, I don't believe the penitentiary is causing insanity in the inmates (above and beyond what they brought in with them), although I could be wrong. Third, what I'm saying "works" is that a very bad person is getting punished for what he did.

There may very well be more to this story, but based on what I saw in that article, its all to the good imho.

 

[zizzybaluba]

If the point really is to make the inmate lose his/her sanity, is it arguable that confinement in a supermax is less humane a punishment than death?

 

[ponderingturtle]

If the point really is to make the inmate lose his/her sanity, is it arguable that confinement in a supermax is less humane a punishment than death?

No the point is to maximuze saftey for the staff and prisoners, the reduction in human contact and isolation that this requires is bad for peoples mental health.

Still it is not as bad as some of the first prisons, where is was thought that if you locked someone in a small room with a bible they would come out a moral person.

 

[drkitten]

Well, first, I don't believe this particular inmate's assessment of the penitentiary system.

I thought the relationship between isolation and the development of psychosis was well-enough understood that I didn't need to cite it. Obviously, I was wrong, and will dig up the appropriate PubMed citations in due course.

Are you familiar with the conditions that hold in the Florence "SuperMax"? The inmate's description is little if any exaggerated, and in particular, his description of 23 hour per day isolation and confinement in a deliberately stimulus-free environment is absolutely spot on. This environment is known to produce psychosis, and specifically schizophrenia, in a large percentage of people.

 

[drkitten]

As for what purpose they serve, well would it be better to put him in general population and have someone kill him because they want the prestigue? That would be concidered unacceptable as well.

How about put him in the general population and hire enough staff (and competent enough staff) to handle any security-related incidents that arise?

If the prison management can't prevent the murder of a prisoner, then the prison management is incompetent and should be replaced.

 

[ponderingturtle]

How about put him in the general population and hire enough staff (and competent enough staff) to handle any security-related incidents that arise?

If the prison management can't prevent the murder of a prisoner, then the prison management is incompetent and should be replaced.

Got it so you want to have say 4 full time emploies per prisoner? This would mean what 20% of america would be in prison either working or convicted? Or should Rudolph get a large number of body guards?

When you have people with nothing else to do with their time but try to hurt others, it can be very hard to prevent that.

 

[TragicMonkey]

How much did Rudolph worry about the health, mental and physical, of other people when he blew them up? I think he ought to consider himself lucky that civilization is extending him the favor of permitting his continued existence in one piece, a favor he did not extend to his victims.

Although because I am softhearted, I think people who are in prison for life should be permitted to commit suicide if they so desire.

 

[Charles Livingston]

I thought the relationship between isolation and the development of psychosis was well-enough understood that I didn't need to cite it. Obviously, I was wrong, and will dig up the appropriate PubMed citations in due course.

Are you familiar with the conditions that hold in the Florence "SuperMax"? The inmate's description is little if any exaggerated, and in particular, his description of 23 hour per day isolation and confinement in a deliberately stimulus-free environment is absolutely spot on. This environment is known to produce psychosis, and specifically schizophrenia, in a large percentage of people.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your overall point, but is it really a "stimulus-free environment"? I read the time or newsweek article and he has tv in his cell, as well as some reading materials. The tv has access to more than two or three regular channels as well as religous channels for almost every possible religion you can think of. They even play trivia games against each other (competing for candy bars) using the tv. Also, he describes being able to communicate verbally with neighboring cells via yelling. True, he has minimal contact with the guards and he only gets face to face contact when they get out in the runs, which I understand is not everyday, but sometimes only once a month, but he openly discusses learning about the culture, as well as some of the languages, of the terrorists held near him. They even ask him the answers to the trivia games.

 

[zizzybaluba]

How much did Rudolph worry about the health, mental and physical, of other people when he blew them up? I think he ought to consider himself lucky that civilization is extending him the favor of permitting his continued existence in one piece, a favor he did not extend to his victims.

This seems like a strawman with regards to whether or not his punishment is humane.

Although because I am softhearted, I think people who are in prison for life should be permitted to commit suicide if they so desire.

Interesting thought, and I'm inclined to say I agree with you here.

 

[Upchurch]

Are you familiar with the conditions that hold in the Florence "SuperMax"?

Nope. My only information on the subject was from the guy in the article, which as I said, I consider to be an inherently untrustworthy source. Your corroborating his story, however, changes my view considerably. I have found you to be very trustworthy in the past.

The inmate's description is little if any exaggerated, and in particular, his description of 23 hour per day isolation and confinement in a deliberately stimulus-free environment is absolutely spot on. This environment is known to produce psychosis, and specifically schizophrenia, in a large percentage of people.

I still cannot say I have sympathy for this ..."person", but I also cannot approve of allowing him to come to actual harm, intentionally or unintentionally, while in custody.

 

[headscratcher4]

I seem to recall that he plead guilty to get the death penalty off the table...one wonders what he thought Prison would be like for a man who planted bombs that killed people. I'm glad he wasn't executed. I am opposed to the death penalty. But, it is hard to feel too badly for him...yes, maybe he lacks the stimulation he craves...but it sounds like he's better off than the alleged terrorists who haven't even had a trial at G'tmo.

 

[Rob Lister]

How much did Rudolph worry about the health, mental and physical, of other people when he blew them up? I think he ought to consider himself lucky that civilization is extending him the favor of permitting his continued existence in one piece, a favor he did not extend to his victims.

Although because I am softhearted, I think people who are in prison for life should be permitted to commit suicide if they so desire.

So rarely we agree of late, but again we do...on both paragraphs.

First Para: I'm of the mind that all prisoners, regardless of crime, should get the exact same treatment (with the disclaimer that the sentence should take that aspect of the treatment into account). That way, "jail" is a known, at least in terms of disincentive aspect. Various other benefits exist as well. "Mingling" with other prisoners should probably be one the first things prohibited.

Second Para: ...and possibly given the means.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

I see the title "Olympic bomber" and can't help but wonder if the organizing committee is being a bit too liberal in their recent additions of all these wacky new games.