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Prison beats College.

Tmy

Philosopher
Tmy
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Messages
6,487
There was an article in the Boston Globe about how for the state budget has allocated more money to the Corrections dept than higher education. They had a chart showing the how the steady rise of the corrections budget has caught up to the roller coaster higher ed budget. Kinda sad.

Whats up with the exploding prison costs. War on drugs???
 
Prisons are the best use of public money. (right up there with police and fire protection)
 
If it were up to me, a lot the "laws" people break to get into prison would not exist. Including, but not limited to, drugs laws, and gun laws.
 
The two shouldn't be compared. They each deserve seperate consideration; there is no relation whatsoever.
 
They're both kind of the same. In either one you should kick someone's ass the first day or become someone's bitch.
 
Prisoners get politicians elected, when have you ever heard a politician pledging to put less people behind bars? Imprisoning and executing people is needed for the "tough on crime" image.

I believe the same paranoia that causes some people to feel the need to wear a handgun 24/7 is the same paranoia that needs to see lots and lots of "baddies" in prison...the more the better.
 
Tmy said:
There was an article in the Boston Globe about how for the state budget has allocated more money to the Corrections dept than higher education. They had a chart showing the how the steady rise of the corrections budget has caught up to the roller coaster higher ed budget. Kinda sad.

Whats up with the exploding prison costs. War on drugs???
Click to expand...

Prisons have to contend with many issues that colleges do not.

Since prisoners have been compelled to be wards of the state, the state has to provide housing, food, health care, shelter, security, education, etc. at no charge to them. Whereas college students are in college because they want to be there, therefore they are charged for the expenses they incur.
 
Re: Re: Prison beats College.

Crossbow said:


Prisons have to contend with many issues that colleges do not.

Since prisoners have been compelled to be wards of the state, the state has to provide housing, food, health care, shelter, security, education, etc. at no charge to them. Whereas college students are in college because they want to be there, therefore they are charged for the expenses they incur.
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It's hardly the point that to accommodate a prisoner costs more than to accommodate a student, but rather the trend -- less and less toward education and more and more toward incarceration.
 
Re: Re: Re: Prison beats College.

hgc said:
It's hardly the point that to accommodate a prisoner costs more than to accommodate a student, but rather the trend -- less and less toward education and more and more toward incarceration.
Click to expand...

Sorry about that! If that was his point, I guess I missed it.
 
I would be interested to know how many people are in prison in the state versus how many are in higher education.

Plus, isn't it the case that you pay for your own college fees in the states?

IMO, to get a true picture of the expense of education versus the expense of the prison system you would have to factor in the fees paid by the students.

Maybe prisoners could be charged rent. Obviously, if they have no money, a low-interest loan could be arranged.

That's not a bad idea, now that I think of it. After their release, bill each prisoner in monthly instalments for his or her prison time - for the rest of their lives if necessary.

You could even charge extra for TV access, gym membership or whatever.

The perfect capitalist solution!

Graham
 
We have one county sheriff whos hard nosed tatics have made national news. He wants to charge inamtes $5 a day (problem is youll waste more time trying to collect this money) hes used chain gangs, took away the weights (I agree wh that) the TV's ( I disagree. Controled TV access can be educational). people are happythat hes made the county jail a lousy place to be. But lots of the gaurds are pissed because of the high tensions and no dangling carrots available to encourage good behavior.

Y know whats a big part ofthe prison costs. Disability claims. It seems like evey tiem theres a ruckus a bunch of guards end up in the hospital with "back problems". Ive met so many former guards who are out on disabilty. I think 1/2 of them are scams.
 
And if they refuse to pay, what do you do, send them to prision?

Most prisioners are already indigent which is why they use public defenders, while the ones with means get good lawyers and make deals or get off all together (read OJ Simpson).
 
Graham said:
I would be interested to know how many people are in prison in the state versus how many are in higher education.

Plus, isn't it the case that you pay for your own college fees in the states?
Click to expand...
States subsidize the costs of colleges and universities within the state system. Thus residents who would not otherwise afford it can afford higher education.
IMO, to get a true picture of the expense of education versus the expense of the prison system you would have to factor in the fees paid by the students.

Maybe prisoners could be charged rent. Obviously, if they have no money, a low-interest loan could be arranged.

That's not a bad idea, now that I think of it. After their release, bill each prisoner in monthly instalments for his or her prison time - for the rest of their lives if necessary.

You could even charge extra for TV access, gym membership or whatever.

The perfect capitalist solution!

Graham
Click to expand...
Most people in prison don't have a lot of money. There's simply not much to collect. But anyway, many people convicted of a crime are assessed a fine in addition to possible prison time.

I can picture it now: Ex-convict steals to make cost of incarceration payments to state!

This reminds me of the movie "Brazil," where prisoners who are brought in for questioning (torture) then have their bank accounts automatically debited for the cost of the torture session.
 
I see a lot of people b!tching, thats ok. How would you solve the prison "problem"? People commit crimes, that's a fact. What would you prefer to do with murderers, rapists and the rest of society's scum? Do you want prison funding to be cut?
 
Tony said:
I see a lot of people b!tching, thats ok. How would you solve the prison "problem"? People commit crimes, that's a fact. What would you prefer to do with murderers, rapists and the rest of society's scum? Do you want prison funding to be cut?
Click to expand...
Who's bitching about putting murderers and rapists in prison? Show us. I think you already agree that drug users and minor drug dealers don't belong in prison (at least for the drug crime). That's why our prison costs are going up, with money being diverted from teaching people how to do something with their lives.
 
hgc said:
Who's bitching about putting murderers and rapists in prison? Show us.
Click to expand...

No one is, but that wasnt my point, sorry for the misunderstanding. I mean that people are b!tching about the issue in question. I agree that it is a bad and disturbing trend.

I think you already agree that drug users and minor drug dealers don't belong in prison (at least for the drug crime). That's why our prison costs are going up, with money being diverted from teaching people how to do something with their lives.


I agree.

How would you change the system?
 
Crossbow said:
And if they refuse to pay, what do you do, send them to prision?

Most prisioners are already indigent which is why they use public defenders, while the ones with means get good lawyers and make deals or get off all together (read OJ Simpson).
Click to expand...

Bear in mind that I'm making this up as I go along . . .

1) for collection puposes, perhaps it could be tied into the tax system. Ex-cons charged a higher rate, perhaps or an additional annual levy.

2) for the indigent, I would (regardless of this proposition) argue that no one should leave prison without a job to go to. I think it should be part of sentencing - two years in jail plus a minimum of two years monitored working or work on a government sponsored programme.

Repayments would have to be tailored to income. It is likely that a low income prisoner would never pay back his entire loan - shrug - so be it.

Graham
 
( I wish I had the news artilce to link)

My beef was that the prison budget has risen every year over the last 10 years. which is strange because the crime rate has been up n down during that time.

I thik we shoudl try alternate ways of correction. Rapists and murderers, fine lock tehm up. But drug addicts and petty drug dealers???
 
Tony said:


No one is, but that wasnt my point, sorry for the misunderstanding. I mean that people are b!tching about the issue in question. I agree that it is a bad and disturbing trend.

I think you already agree that drug users and minor drug dealers don't belong in prison (at least for the drug crime). That's why our prison costs are going up, with money being diverted from teaching people how to do something with their lives.


I agree.

How would you change the system?
Click to expand...

Expand the community service system so that people convicted of "lesser" crimes are put to work, full time and hard labour if they're physically able for it and that's what's needed.

There is plenty of beneficial work that could be done by not so willing hands.

I would even go so far as to advocate the state selling the labour of prisoners to private corporations.

Graham
 
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