Presidental War Crimes

[NoahFence]

It was suggested on another thread that there hasn't been a President who didn't commit war crimes. That was part of a derail that has since been shuttled off to hangar #AAH. I thought it an interesting topic, so I shall give it it's own thread.

According to wikipedia the definition of a war crime is this:

A war crime is an act that constitutes a serious violation of the law of war that gives rise to individual criminal responsibility.[1] Examples of war crimes include intentionally killing civilians or prisoners, torture, destroying civilian property, taking hostages, perfidy, rape, using child soldiers, pillaging, declaring that no quarter will be given, and using weapons that cause superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering.[2]

I would think that it goes without saying that the above is probably not the agreed upon UN definition, but it offers a good starting point. So instead of the imminent nit-picking of the quoted passage, lets just talk about the content.

I would invite avid readers to explain what war crimes (specifically) all Presidents since say, 1950 are guilty of.

 

[Crossbow]

Johnson and Nixon comes to mind with their secret wars, secret torture programs, and secret assassination programs during the Vietnam War.

George W. Bush comes to mind with his non-secret Iraq War and his secret torture program.

Those the three that I can think of since the days of Truman.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

I think it will be hard to successfully acuse Obama of war crimes. This is not because he's such an angel, but because his method of choice of attacks (drones) provides a stark asymmetry between the amount of information and evidence known to the Pentagon / CIA and any local researchers.
It's easy to show that drone attacks are not indiscriminate, and it's easier to avoid stupid mistakes.
By the measures we have, drones also do reduce collateral damage.

Guantanamo Bay continues to be a breach of the Geneva Convention, of course, but I'm not aware of any more "renditions" being carried out.

 

[C_Felix]

I'm gonna go, just off the top of my head, with William Henry Harrison. I have a feeling he didn't commit any war crimes.

 

[Megalodon]

Without looking it up, Jimmy Carter probably would be the clean one in recent history...Clinton had some very problematic bombings in the Balkans, Bush 1 had the invasion of Iraq and subsequent abandonment of the Iraqui rebels that rose to his appeals. Reagan had some shady ops happening under him, but without google I can't remember exactly what.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Senior Bush? Gulf 1 was UN sanctioned.

Balkans bombings.?

 

[Trebuchet]

I'm gonna go, just off the top of my head, with William Henry Harrison. I have a feeling he didn't commit any war crimes.

Not as President, perhaps, but some Native Americans may have thought he did before that.

 

[theprestige]

Without looking it up, Jimmy Carter probably would be the clean one in recent history...Clinton had some very problematic bombings in the Balkans, Bush 1 had the invasion of Iraq and subsequent abandonment of the Iraqui rebels that rose to his appeals. Reagan had some shady ops happening under him, but without google I can't remember exactly what.

Carter invaded Iran.

Reagan had Iran-Contra, but I don't know if that counts as war crimes.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Reagan had Iran-Contra, but I don't know if that counts as war crimes.

I think it is fair to trace Oliver North's later fame to this affair. Maybe not technically a war crime, but pretty dang war crimey.

 

[ddt]

Carter invaded Iran.

Does that count as a war crime? Properly declaring war against another country seems to have severely gone out of fashion after WW2.

Reagan had Iran-Contra, but I don't know if that counts as war crimes.

Selling arms to a country under embargo (Iran) is not a war crime.
Giving money to "rebels" (the Contras) neither, AFAIK, even if they themselves commit war crimes.

Iran-Contra was primarily a US political scandal, as the president acted against the express decisions of Congress.

 

[ddt]

But if invasion without declaration of war counts, then Kennedy should also be on the list with the Bay of Pigs.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Invaded Iran?

 

[theprestige]

Invaded Iran?

Operation Eagle Claw

 

[Andy_Ross]

Operation Eagle Claw

Why would that be a War Crime?

 

[theprestige]

Why would that be a War Crime?

Beats me. But I figured it should at least be on the table for discussion.

 

[theprestige]

Does that count as a war crime? Properly declaring war against another country seems to have severely gone out of fashion after WW2.

"Properly declaring war" is overrated, in my opinion. A Congressional authorization of use of military force is more than sufficient to serve notice. Assuming the other belligerent(s) don't already consider themselves to be in a state of war, of course.

And preemption is also kosher (so to speak), as long as an acceptable casus belli is put forward once the element of surprise has been fully exploited. E.g., the Six Day War.

 

[Border Reiver]

Without looking it up, Jimmy Carter probably would be the clean one in recent history...Clinton had some very problematic bombings in the Balkans, Bush 1 had the invasion of Iraq and subsequent abandonment of the Iraqui rebels that rose to his appeals. Reagan had some shady ops happening under him, but without google I can't remember exactly what.

The First Gulf War was UN sanctioned - liberation of Kuwait, and the ancillary operations in Iraq. The coalition's operations there are the very definition of "not a war crime."

As for Clinton in the Balkans - again the bombings in Serbia and Bosnia had broad approval and were confined to military targets, such as bridges, etc. How are they war crimes?

 

[marplots]

Not sure why perfidy made the Wiki list. Seems like something you'd expect as a matter of course from a politician.

 

[theprestige]

As for Clinton in the Balkans - again the bombings in Serbia and Bosnia had broad approval and were confined to military targets, such as bridges, etc. How are they war crimes?

What about the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

Carried out without UN sanction. Killed around 500 civilians. Attacking military targets can still be a war crime, if proper care is not taken to avoid unnecessary civilian casualties.

 

[sunmaster14]

The First Gulf War was UN sanctioned - liberation of Kuwait, and the ancillary operations in Iraq. The coalition's operations there are the very definition of "not a war crime."

As for Clinton in the Balkans - again the bombings in Serbia and Bosnia had broad approval and were confined to military targets, such as bridges, etc. How are they war crimes?

Broad approval? Does the law recognize such a concept? Also, this event was undoubtedly a war crime. Perhaps the most blatant war crime I've ever seen committed in real time by a US administration. And the efforts to justify it were nauseating as well.