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Prediction of Pearl Harbor?

332nd

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
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I posted this a BAUT too but I figured the more people I ask the more tips i could get.

First off Happy Holidays if you celebrate if not, howdy,:) Long story short I have some folks here that swear that the "Hilo Tribune Herald" predicted the attack on Pearl Harbor thus enter the CTs with "It was LIHOP!!!!" This is the only pic I could find of said paper

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=152926

Ralph-epperson.com threw up the first red flag and then it seems Epperson has the only copy of this headline. I did a search and didn't find anything (but as I'm computer dyslexic it's possible that i just screwed said seach up) so I thought I'd ask if anyone had seen or heard of this before? Is it real?

Thanks
Redtail and the CTs who will learn how to fry a turkey tomorrow.
lol.gif
 
I posted this a BAUT too but I figured the more people I ask the more tips i could get.

First off Happy Holidays if you celebrate if not, howdy,:) Long story short I have some folks here that swear that the "Hilo Tribune Herald" predicted the attack on Pearl Harbor thus enter the CTs with "It was LIHOP!!!!" This is the only pic I could find of said paper

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=152926

That looks to be a badly done "chop". Seeing as the headline doesn't support any articles shown on that page.

Contact the Tribune at:
808-935-6621
Its only 3 pm there.


Haha, im from Hawaii, but I lived on Oahu, and of coures before my time.

Funny however, because at the Pearl Harbor Memorial, they have republished articles and of course front page from the Advertiser and Star Bulletin of that day. YOu'd think that such article would have been republished in efforts to help figure out what happened that day.

Why that :article' has never appeared anywhere else but that website also lends to question if its real or not.




 
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Why that :article' has never appeared anywhere else but that website also lends to question if its real or not.

Aloha, what are you... stupid? If 'they' can make a PBS documentary and Oxford Encyclopedia disappear, a newspaper article is relatively simple :rolleyes:
 
Yeah it looks like bad photshop to me too but I wanted to see what I could find. Thanks for the number I'll give them a call and see what they say. Funny part is we just got back from Honolulu Friday and my Future Brother-in-law just brought today.:D
 
OOOH. i came up with something very nice!!!!

The Hawaii Tribune Herald didn't exist under that name in 1941

The Hawaii Tribune Herald was the combination of three publications in 1923 (Hilo Daily Tribune, Daily Post-Herald, and Hawaii Herald), and it operated undre the name Hawaii Herald from 1923- 1964.

Can't post a question to them till Tuesday to confirm.
 
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It's Google Time

Look up Gen. Billy Mitchell.
He predicted an attack on Pearl Harbor in 1924!
There were numerous predictions of an attack on Pearl Harbor over the years. The groupthink in Dept. of State and at the Pentagon tended towards the "well it ain't happened yet, so it ain't gonna happen" variety, IMHO. But the various predictions were unlike the "Nazis Landing in Maine" rumors - they were from reputable sources.

If KiwiWriter is reading, he can elucidate on the above much better than I. I can't speak with validity to the apparent photoshop of the Hilo front page, but can make a couple of observations:

> The headline is darker than the banner/logo of the paper. That was unheard of in newspapers of the time.
> The article was probably legit as the disintegrating relationship between Washington and Tokyo was news at that time, but the headline may not be.
> The lettering in the headline is a bit uneven (but so's everything else on that page). Linotype shouldn't have been that "disorganized".
> Wikipedia (that venerated anti-research organization) has apparently accepted it as factual.
> The Hilo Tribune Herald is now the Hawaii Tribune Herald and their archives don't go back more than a couple of years, but you'd think they'd have a special place for such an historical prediction. (They have a forum, but it consists of FIVE members who have posted ZERO articles, so I wouldn't expect a lot of response.) But if you really want to investigate it, I'm sure you could email the newspaper, itself. However, I didn't find an email address on their site. http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/

I'd just vote for "PhotoShop" because there is so much material available about Pearl Harbor predictions that I'm sure this would've been picked up before.
 
One of the other headlines on that page says "Reds retake Rostov in classic move". That happened in 1943. Obvious hoax. Goodnight and Merry Christmas to all.

The Red Army indeed retook Rostok on November 27, 1941, but was unable to hold onto it. You are correct that the final recapturing of Rostok was in 1943.

I'm not saying it isn't a hoax article.
 
The Red Army indeed retook Rostok on November 27, 1941, but was unable to hold onto it. You are correct that the final recapturing of Rostok was in 1943.

I'm not saying it isn't a hoax article.

I think the newspaper's legit. I doubt the headline is, though.
 
Oregon State did indeed play in the 1942 Rose Bowl (which took place 25 days after Pearl Harbor was attacked and which was moved to Durham, North Carolina because of fears of a West Coast attack). Of course, predicting that the Japanese would attack was no big deal; predicting Pearl Harbor itself as one of the attack points would have been. I know that there is a Superman radio episode from a week or so before Pearl Harbor where Jimmy Olsen mentions something vague about an attack by Japan that drove researchers who were trying to pinpoint the date of every episode crazy.
 
And Kiwiwriter answers!

Look up Gen. Billy Mitchell.
He predicted an attack on Pearl Harbor in 1924!
There were numerous predictions of an attack on Pearl Harbor over the years. The groupthink in Dept. of State and at the Pentagon tended towards the "well it ain't happened yet, so it ain't gonna happen" variety, IMHO. But the various predictions were unlike the "Nazis Landing in Maine" rumors - they were from reputable sources.

If KiwiWriter is reading, he can elucidate on the above much better than I. I can't speak with validity to the apparent photoshop of the Hilo front page, but can make a couple of observations:

> The headline is darker than the banner/logo of the paper. That was unheard of in newspapers of the time.
> The article was probably legit as the disintegrating relationship between Washington and Tokyo was news at that time, but the headline may not be.
> The lettering in the headline is a bit uneven (but so's everything else on that page). Linotype shouldn't have been that "disorganized".
> Wikipedia (that venerated anti-research organization) has apparently accepted it as factual.
> The Hilo Tribune Herald is now the Hawaii Tribune Herald and their archives don't go back more than a couple of years, but you'd think they'd have a special place for such an historical prediction. (They have a forum, but it consists of FIVE members who have posted ZERO articles, so I wouldn't expect a lot of response.) But if you really want to investigate it, I'm sure you could email the newspaper, itself. However, I didn't find an email address on their site. http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/

I'd just vote for "PhotoShop" because there is so much material available about Pearl Harbor predictions that I'm sure this would've been picked up before.

I glanced at the newspaper briefly, it being 12:48 a.m. and I'm for bed, but my recollection is that with the talks between Japan and the US breaking down, there was speculation in the media (Time magazine said that "From Rangoon to the West Coast, every man was at his battlestations," a remarkable idiocy) that Japan would strike, but every indicator said they would hit Malaya, the Dutch East Indies, Hong Kong, and the Philippines, which they did. Not Hawaii.

I'll look at this a little later -- Christmas Day is a huge event in my family -- but so far it looks like just another fake. Pearl Harbor has been investigated to death, and my judgment is about the same as most historians, there was no fraud by FDR or conspiracy. The Japanese rehearsed and prepared an excellent plan, and it succeeded. The Americans faced Japan with overconfidence and a series of blunders, at all levels of command. As Gordon W. Prange writes, "There is enough blame for everyone."

I am not as harsh on the commanders on the scene, Short and Kimmel, as the wartime and immediate postwar investigators were. Yes, they had to be relieved of their commands after the fiasco, but no, they should not have been shelved for the duration. A lot of people made a lot of mistakes -- MacArthur lost his whole air force a day later and did not get the axe -- and I think Kimmel and Short got hammered a bit more than they deserved.

Short made the greater error of the two in focusing more on anti-sabotage than the possibilities of air attack, but he was operating in an environment where multi-carrier task forces had not been conceived of, and nobody believed the Japanese were militarily or technologically capable of the feat they pulled off.

The Pearl Harbor controversy, such as it is, consists heavily of attacks on FDR and is launched from people who have penknives to grind against him. It's also interesting to see that Holocaust deniers like Arthur Butz and Harry Elmer Barnes are big champions of Pearl Harbor conspiracies. They have a vested interest in doing so...they think the US was on the "wrong side" in World War II.
 
Well, there is an article associated with the headline - on the far right (Toyko Desperate as Talks Collapse). However, I can't read any of it.

Two things, though - the headline reads JAPAN MAY STRIKE OVER WEEKEND. The date is the 30th of November, and the 7th is more than a week away.

And the headline doesn't include the word HERE.
 
MacArthur lost his whole air force a day later and did not get the axe

I agree in total with the rest of your post. However in MacArthurs case, it was a subordinate who put the planes in the air, and circling the base waiting for orders.
 
It's a bit more complicated...

I agree in total with the rest of your post. However in MacArthurs case, it was a subordinate who put the planes in the air, and circling the base waiting for orders.

The planes were indeed circling, and waiting for orders, which MacArthur never gave. He seems to have frozen with the outbreak of war. When he was told, he reached for his Bible, which is an understandable reaction for religious people, but didn't do much after that, just pacing around his apartment at No. 1 Calle Victoria.

However, things got worse...the radar stations at Iba and other places picked up the incoming Japanese attack force, and the warning messages were sent by teletype and phone. However, the teletype operator at Clark Field went to lunch, and whoever took the phone message there did not pass it on.

So the American planes, short of gas, landed, everyone went to lunch while the mechanics re-armed the planes, and while that was going on, the Japanese arrived and bombed the living hell out of the American air force, wiping it out almost in its entirety. Worse, the AA guns' ammunition was out of date, and the shells fired were duds or could not hit the Japanese planes at their altitude.

So there were a bunch of factors involved, and disaster ensued.

The disaster, by the way, got worse when MacArthur withdrew into Bataan. His Q work was terrible. They left sacks and sacks of rice in Manila, most of it in a stadium. The reefers and deep-freezes at Fort Stotsenburg were jammed with food, but they were left behind. Trucks drove into the peninsula...empty. But hordes of civilians fled the Japanese into Bataan, adding to MacArthur's supply troubles.

Had MacArthur had the plodding but meticulous Gen. Walter Krueger under him in the defense of the Philippines, Bataan would likely have been properly stocked with food for the siege. Instead, MacArthur had to put his troops on half rations immediately. By the time the Japanese attacked the Americans in the final offensive in April 1942, the defending Fil-American forces were starving, sick, and unable to fight. Some of the men were so weak they could not rise from their foxholes.

Supplies as a whole were short: the Americans had to defend Bataan using anti-tank grenades made from Coca-Cola bottles with gasoline poured into them.

The Philippine campaign is truly an epic defense. One realizes how vastly different the US Army that fought in Bataan was from the one that won the war when you read the accounts of American POWs upon liberation in Japan.

First, the Americans parachuted news magazines, movie projectors, and newsreels into the camps, so the POWs could find out how the war was really going. The POWs were baffled by the technology discussed, and the names. Who were Patton, Mitscher, Eisenhower, and Spaatz? What were electronics, escort carriers, and jet aircraft?

When the POWs finally hooked up with the invading American forces, the POWs were baffled. Into Japan (or the Philippines) came these huge guys in green uniforms, wearing big round helmets, driving around in enormous tanks, halftracks, and amphibious vehicles, clutching short carbines and huge tubes they called "bazookas." The invaders arrived on landing craft that were disgorged from immense battleships that bristled with flak guns and radar antennas, surrounding rows and rows of huge (and small) new carriers. Overhead flew American planes (you couldn't miss those distinctive Pratt & Whitney engine sounds) that were unrecognizable: gull-winged F4U Corsairs, fat but maneuverable F6F Hellcats, sleek P-51 Mustangs, and immense silver B-29 Superfortresses.

The nurses liberated in the Philippines first thought the invading Americans were Germans, until a tanker leaned out of his Sherman's hatch and yelled, "Hello, folks!" Then the nurses turned to, helping the doctors with the casualties. The nurses knew their trade, but were baffled when the doctors told them to fetch some "Penicillin."

The POWs had fought their battles in khaki uniforms, wearing soup-bowl helmets, carrying long Springfield rifles, and what few tanks they had were small rivet-hulled M3 Stuarts, armed with 37mm guns. Their ships were battered gunboats from the China Station, and their aircraft were a few P-35s and P-40s held together with masking tape, inferior to the ubiquitous Japanese Zeros. No bombers at all. They were genuinely amazed. Gen. Jonathan Wainwright called the battleship Missouri the "most startling weapon of war" he had ever seen.
 
sorry to dig this up, but anyone contacted the Hawaii Tribune Herald to get a corroboration?
 

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