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Possible to promote A without possessing A?

Is it possible to promote A without possessing A?

  • Yes

    Votes: 33 100.0%

  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    33

T'ai Chi

Penultimate Amazing
T
Joined
May 20, 2003
Messages
11,219
From http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49686 RandFan maintains that it is possible to promote A without possessing A.

This arose from discussion about possible heirs to JREF, and RandFan's assertion was that

It's certainly possible to promote skepticism while lacking critical thinking skills.
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Claus maintains that it is not possible via

I don't see how it is possible.
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Most comments in the thread back up RandFan.

What do people think?

Is it possible to promote A without possessing A? Yes or No?
 
Sure you can promote it. Promoting is a skill and it is not necessary to be a part of whatever you are promoting to do a good job of it. You think advertising people believe their BS? You just need to know how to promote whatever it is you are promoting.
 
Dogdoctor said:
Sure you can promote it. Promoting is a skill and it is not necessary to be a part of whatever you are promoting to do a good job of it. You think advertising people believe their BS? You just need to know how to promote whatever it is you are promoting.
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Hmm, yes, but there is a motivational factor at work there: salary.

What would motivate someone to promote skepticism if they do not consider themselves a skeptic?
 
tkingdoll said:
Hmm, yes, but there is a motivational factor at work there: salary.

What would motivate someone to promote skepticism if they do not consider themselves a skeptic?
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Obviously but then the question was only if it was possible. No mention of motivational factors or the lack of them. Unless someone is going to redefine the question. Also a person may not have enough brains to think critically to any great extent, but enough to recognize that critical thinking is a good thing.
 
Examples that have been offered by others and some by myself:

It's possible to promote honesty without being honest.
It's possible to promote virtue without being virtuous.
It's possible to promote fidelity and be unfaithful.
It's possible to promote feminism and not be female.
It's possible to promote gay marriage and not be gay.
It's possible to promote education and be uneducated.

Reasons why.

1.) Hypocrisy.
2.) Self deception.
3.) Inability to truly understand what it is you are promoting.
4.) Believing in whatever you promote but simply lacking that quality or virtue.

There surely are other examples and other reasons.
 
I don't think it is always a matter of promoting critical thinking while lacking critical thinking skills. I think it is sometimes a matter of promoting skepticism and anti-woo while lacking critical thinking skills.

Not everyone who considers themselves a skeptic actually has great critical thinking skills. Some of them are very woo-like in their thinking, but just happen to coincidentally have what is considered the "skeptical" opinion. So they think they are great skeptics. But they didn't arrive at their opinions via extensive critical thought. They arrived at them through emotions and gut-reactions, and just happened by chance to arrive at the same opinion as the critical-thinking skeptics.
 
20 Yes to 0 No, I think the results are even more obvious than they were before.

I wonder if Claus can now see how it is possible.
 
I promote the Cardinals baseball team, but you do not want me to play on your baseball team. I promote the sport, but I lack the ability to play the sport.
 
Upchurch said:
I promote the Cardinals baseball team, but you do not want me to play on your baseball team. I promote the sport, but I lack the ability to play the sport.
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hehe, I hear ya.

I told the YMCA people, that sure, I'll sign the membership agreement authorizing pictures to be taken, but pictures of me doing any sport will only turn people away from the YMCA. :D
 
And, no offense indented, how many cheerleaders or marching band members do you want on your high school/college football team?
 
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Upchurch said:
I promote the Cardinals baseball team, but you do not want me to play on your baseball team. I promote the sport, but I lack the ability to play the sport.
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Yes, but isn't the difference

a) you probably would if you could, and

b) you believe wholeheartedly in the team and the sport, i.e. you accept it.

To promote critical thinking and yet not be a critical thinker would be rather different, in that you would have to understand the principles and yet reject them.
 
tkingdoll said:
a) you probably would if you could, and
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Actually, no. I really hate playing sports. Kinda ironic, isn't it?

tkingdoll said:
To promote critical thinking and yet not be a critical thinker would be rather different, in that you would have to understand the principles and yet reject them.
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or you could not really understand those principles and merely believe that you are enacting them.
 
Upchurch said:
or you could not really understand those principles and merely believe that you are enacting them.
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Ah, that's different to what I thought we were discussing. I would say it's very possible to promote critical thinking and labour under the illusion that one is, oneself, a critical thinker without actually employing the toolkit that you promote. However, you'd have to be pretty thick to be such a person, I think. After all, it would involve describing to people a process that by nature requires one to question one's own beliefs. Therefore, if you were in possession of that knowledge, you would, as part of the process, question whether you were actually doing it (I mean, don't we all? Isn't the point of the whole thing to stop and double-check your own bias?)

That's not the same as someone who promotes critical thinking and yet deliberately does not employ it, which is what I thought the original question was about.
 
tkingdoll said:
Ah, that's different to what I thought we were discussing. I would say it's very possible to promote critical thinking and labour under the illusion that one is, oneself, a critical thinker without actually employing the toolkit that you promote. However, you'd have to be pretty thick to be such a person, I think.
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Consider the woo's out there who strongly believe that they can do what they are not doing. How would it be any different if you were to merely exchange a woo belief for an anti-woo belief?

tkingdoll said:
After all, it would involve describing to people a process that by nature requires one to question one's own beliefs. Therefore, if you were in possession of that knowledge, you would, as part of the process, question whether you were actually doing it (I mean, don't we all? Isn't the point of the whole thing to stop and double-check your own bias?)
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It would not be a fully rational position but self-deception despite oneself, and I think that's the point.
 
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