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Ed Pope weighs in on US presidential election

PitPat

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Does anybody except the pope care what the pope thinks? On any topic? The papacy has been going downhill for the last fifteen hundred years.
 
Does anybody except the pope care what the pope thinks? On any topic? The papacy has been going downhill for the last fifteen hundred years.
Yes, most Catholics tend to at least pay attention to what he says. In this case he appears to have said that it's okay for them to vote for either candidate.
 
As popes go, I've mostly been pleasantly surprised by this one. But this is disappointing: "the one who kills babies" is a highly loaded take on the Democratic party's position - it makes it sound like Harris will be ordering the death of infants (Herod style) as opposed to essentially just not punishing doctors and leaving the decision to those directly involved.
 
American Catholics have always been known for being less "obedient" to popes than most Catholics. I don't think this will have much effect on their voting choice.
 
American Catholics have always been known for being less "obedient" to popes than most Catholics. I don't think this will have much effect on their voting choice.
I believe there was much fuss about JFK becoming President because he was Catholic and it was thought that he'd be taking orders from the Pope.
 
As popes go, I've mostly been pleasantly surprised by this one. But this is disappointing: "the one who kills babies" is a highly loaded take on the Democratic party's position - it makes it sound like Harris will be ordering the death of infants (Herod style) as opposed to essentially just not punishing doctors and leaving the decision to those directly involved.

Maybe so, but I think that's the default Catholic position on abortion. What's interesting about this statement is that it's leaning away from that position by saying that the anti-abortion side in this election is so awful that it's OK to consider the pro-abortion side to be the lesser evil. It seems to me it's as pro-Harris as the Pope dares to go.

Dave
 
Maybe so, but I think that's the default Catholic position on abortion. What's interesting about this statement is that it's leaning away from that position by saying that the anti-abortion side in this election is so awful that it's OK to consider the pro-abortion side to be the lesser evil. It seems to me it's as pro-Harris as the Pope dares to go.

Dave
Well, that's a fair point. Biblically, the poor treatment of immigrants is about as high on the list as any sin and sure, the Catholics have been anti-abortion for maybe 1900 years longer than the Evangelicals. But, although considered morally wrong, Catholic leadership has often taken a more nuanced view than legally allowing abortions = killing babies.


On the face of it, "killing babies" does seem morally worse than "kicking out migrants", whereas from a legal point of view, one of the proposed positions still allows the individual to make the moral choice, the other doesn't.
 
I believe there was much fuss about JFK becoming President because he was Catholic and it was thought that he'd be taking orders from the Pope.

That was generations ago. Vatican II sort of half-killed Catholicism in the US: it upset the old (old old old) school traditionalists by introducing too much modernity. It upset the moderns by sticking to too much tradition. American Catholicism has never recovered from that. The total number of church-participating Catholics falls, those who do go are "cafeteria Catholics" and "cultural Catholics"* rather than truly devout, and those who actually truly deeply believe in the actual religious part of the religion either don't go to church at all or are recent converts still flush with the enthusiasm of the novelty -- which will dwindle over time, and likely not last into a second or third generation before burning out.

American Catholics are Catholic in the way that sherbet is ice cream: the vague shape and usage is the same, but it really isn't the same thing at all and if you thought it would be you will be disappointed.

*Like my mom's family, who if you ask will claim to be Catholics and believers but actually only go to church for the milestones of sacraments as coming-of-age cultural rituals rather than genuine theological beliefs. Best example: the sacrament of Confirmation is supposed to be when a Catholic reaches adulthood and as an adult chooses for themselves to "confirm" their religious beliefs in Catholicism and thence participate as an adult. In actuality, my family -- like millions of other "Catholics" in the US and elsewhere-- has reversed Confirmation into the opposite: it becomes a sort of graduation, and after it you're an adult and can decide not to go to church or be Catholic any more. All of my generation on that side of the family was made to go to church until Confirmation, as soon as we went through that it was just fine to stop being religious entirely. You've done it, you've finished religion, and now --in the vague and entirely nonsensical theology of these kinds of Catholics-- you're going to Heaven because you met the requirements and got your diploma, even if you never "use" the religion again! This is the muddled confusion of people going through the motions of following cultural constructs out of a feeling they're supposed to, not genuine religious belief in the religion.

American Catholics follow the actual official religion of Catholicism about as well and often as players follow the actual rules of Monopoly. Have you read those rules? Nobody plays that way. You're supposed to auction off unbought spaces!
 
Maybe so, but I think that's the default Catholic position on abortion. What's interesting about this statement is that it's leaning away from that position by saying that the anti-abortion side in this election is so awful that it's OK to consider the pro-abortion side to be the lesser evil. It seems to me it's as pro-Harris as the Pope dares to go.

Dave

Only since 1869.
 

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