Pope Francis - Time's Person of the Year

[Frozenwolf150]

It was just announced this morning.
http://poy.time.com/2013/12/11/pope-francis-the-choice/

As an atheist myself, I like this pope more than his predecessors, and I don't understand where all the negativity comes from. He is at least trying to move in the right direction by focusing more on issues like poverty and economic inequality, and less on things like abortion and contraception. No, the message hasn't changed much, and this does not make him a liberal, but the tone is different from what we've heard or seen before. He doesn't just pay lip service to the poor either, he goes out and ministers to the poor in his spare time.

On a related note, thank God that Miley Cyrus didn't win.

 

[Dr. Keith]

It was just announced this morning.
http://poy.time.com/2013/12/11/pope-francis-the-choice/

As an atheist myself, I like this pope more than his predecessors, and I don't understand where all the negativity comes from. He is at least trying to move in the right direction by focusing more on issues like poverty and economic inequality, and less on things like abortion and contraception. No, the message hasn't changed much, and this does not make him a liberal, but the tone is different from what we've heard or seen before. He doesn't just pay lip service to the poor either, he goes out and ministers to the poor in his spare time.

Agreed.

On a related note, thank God that Miley Cyrus didn't win.

Would it be a Godwin to mention that Hitler once won?

 

[Brainache]

...
Would it be a Godwin to mention that Hitler once won?

I have a very bad feeling about this...

 

[Frozenwolf150]

Would it be a Godwin to mention that Hitler once won?

Thank you for planting the image in my head of a scantily-clad Hitler twerking with his tongue hanging out.

 

[Segnosaur]

As an atheist myself, I like this pope more than his predecessors, and I don't understand where all the negativity comes from. He is at least trying to move in the right direction by focusing more on issues like poverty and economic inequality, and less on things like abortion and contraception. No, the message hasn't changed much, and this does not make him a liberal, but the tone is different from what we've heard or seen before. He doesn't just pay lip service to the poor either, he goes out and ministers to the poor in his spare time.

I think some people may have a concern that at heart, Pope Francis is just a "dog and pony" show... Focusing on the "help the poor" message drums up positive press for Mr. Pointy-hat, and makes people forget that at heart the catholic church is still stuck in the dark ages about so many things.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Thank you for planting the image in my head of a scantily-clad Hitler twerking with his tongue hanging out.

That image, my friend, is all your own.

 

[Dubious Dick]

I think some people may have a concern that at heart, Pope Francis is just a "dog and pony" show... Focusing on the "help the poor" message drums up positive press for Mr. Pointy-hat, and makes people forget that at heart the catholic church is still stuck in the dark ages about so many things.

THIS!!!

You can't polish a turd, and with or without pope Francis, the Rc/Vatican is still a turd. Still withholding papers on the child abuse scandal, still opposing contraception etc etc etc ad nauseam.

It is a crying shame that he should named POTY. Just as it would be were it any religious leader. Might just as well have given it to Miscavige. after all, for all its faults, scifiology has caused less harm than the Vatican.

The only award Francis should ever receive would be if he disbanded the whole rotten stinking edifice.

 

[Frozenwolf150]

The only award Francis should ever receive would be if he disbanded the whole rotten stinking edifice.

Somehow I doubt that's within his power or authority.

 

[Belz...]

It was just announced this morning.
http://poy.time.com/2013/12/11/pope-francis-the-choice/

As an atheist myself, I like this pope more than his predecessors, and I don't understand where all the negativity comes from. He is at least trying to move in the right direction

Right. I've been complaining for years that JP II and Ratzinger were relics and that the RCC should move forward if they want to remain relevant (in a manner of speaking), so it's refreshing to see someone do just that -- even if his belief system is nonsense.

 

[Aepervius]

Thank you for planting the image in my head of a scantily-clad Hitler twerking with his tongue hanging out.

He was twerking with dentele lingerie.

Now good luck with sleeping at night

 

[Aepervius]

It was just announced this morning.
http://poy.time.com/2013/12/11/pope-francis-the-choice/

As an atheist myself, I like this pope more than his predecessors, and I don't understand where all the negativity comes from. He is at least trying to move in the right direction by focusing more on issues like poverty and economic inequality, and less on things like abortion and contraception. No, the message hasn't changed much, and this does not make him a liberal, but the tone is different from what we've heard or seen before. He doesn't just pay lip service to the poor either, he goes out and ministers to the poor in his spare time.

On a related note, thank God that Miley Cyrus didn't win.

Compared to the other pope , he seems to really believe in what he is saying. Especially vis a vis poverty.

Among all 3 pope I knew, he is pretty much the only one, IMNSHO, which really gives a good image to catholic.

 

[The Norseman]

Somehow I doubt that's within his power or authority.

Wonder if he said it ex cathedra it'd have some real weight, no?

 

[Dinwar]

Wonder if he said it ex cathedra it'd have some real weight, no?

I'm not completely certain that even makes sense. Be fun to try, though!

Such arguments HAVE been made in the past within the Church, by the way. The reason there's two Rules of St. Benedict is because the second St. Benedict thought that the monastic system set up by the first had become corrupted and needed to go back to its roots--basically by dismantling the entire ediface and turning the monks into combination scribe/farmers. Problem is, you've got a lot of educated people with time on their hands. Eventually they figure out a way to become very wealthy educated people with time on their hands.

As for the Person of the Year thing, does this have any actual weight? I mean, does anyone really care? It seems to be mostly "Who would boost our ratings if we gave them free press?" As for this pope being better than previous ones, a lot of folks said the same thing about JohnPaul II, too. Seems to me that he's simply shifting focus into a more socially viable direction, is all. Since the Vatican is supposed to be the fountain of truth and morality (or at least is treated as such), I find little to praise in a pope following social trends. If the Vatican were what it says it is it should be making trends, not following them.

 

[tsig]

I'm not completely certain that even makes sense. Be fun to try, though!

Such arguments HAVE been made in the past within the Church, by the way. The reason there's two Rules of St. Benedict is because the second St. Benedict thought that the monastic system set up by the first had become corrupted and needed to go back to its roots--basically by dismantling the entire ediface and turning the monks into combination scribe/farmers. Problem is, you've got a lot of educated people with time on their hands. Eventually they figure out a way to become very wealthy educated people with time on their hands.

As for the Person of the Year thing, does this have any actual weight? I mean, does anyone really care? It seems to be mostly "Who would boost our ratings if we gave them free press?" As for this pope being better than previous ones, a lot of folks said the same thing about JohnPaul II, too. Seems to me that he's simply shifting focus into a more socially viable direction, is all. Since the Vatican is supposed to be the fountain of truth and morality (or at least is treated as such), I find little to praise in a pope following social trends. If the Vatican were what it says it is it should be making trends, not following them.

As the Vicar of Christ on Earth I think he should do a few showy miracles. Bringing back Michael Jackson would be a real stunner. Multiplying food so that everyone has enough to eat would really get attention.

Instead we have to settle for a kindly word, and a wink and a promise.

 

[Democracy Simulator]

I'm not completely certain that even makes sense. Be fun to try, though!

Such arguments HAVE been made in the past within the Church, by the way. The reason there's two Rules of St. Benedict is because the second St. Benedict thought that the monastic system set up by the first had become corrupted and needed to go back to its roots--basically by dismantling the entire ediface and turning the monks into combination scribe/farmers. Problem is, you've got a lot of educated people with time on their hands. Eventually they figure out a way to become very wealthy educated people with time on their hands.

As for the Person of the Year thing, does this have any actual weight? I mean, does anyone really care? It seems to be mostly "Who would boost our ratings if we gave them free press?" As for this pope being better than previous ones, a lot of folks said the same thing about JohnPaul II, too. Seems to me that he's simply shifting focus into a more socially viable direction, is all. Since the Vatican is supposed to be the fountain of truth and morality (or at least is treated as such), I find little to praise in a pope following social trends. If the Vatican were what it says it is it should be making trends, not following them.

I'm pretty sure he is following the Gospel and not any social trends. He seems to be trying to lead by example and by servanthood, which is essentially what Jesus told the disciples to do.

 

[Dinwar]

I'm pretty sure he is following the Gospel and not any social trends.

Which parts? And why were the other popes--who also claimed to be following the gosples--not doing the exact same thing? Why does this pope now consider this part of the gosples to deserve so much emphasis?

I'm sorry, I don't buy it. I'm sure that he found support in the gosples for his actions; I just don't think that's the reason. It's way too convenient.

 

[The Norseman]

I'm not completely certain that even makes sense. Be fun to try, though!

Yeah, I wasn't terribly clear. What I meant was that if the pope said it was a proclamation from God herself that the RC church should be disbanded, it would probably cause not a slight bit of consternation. It would be vastly amusing nonetheless.

 

[tsig]

Yeah, I wasn't terribly clear. What I meant was that if the pope said it was a proclamation from God herself that the RC church should be disbanded, it would probably cause not a slight bit of consternation. It would be vastly amusing nonetheless.

He would be deposed immediately on grounds of insanity.

 

[Democracy Simulator]

Which parts?

The parts where Jesus hung out with poor people and fed them and healed them, called them 'blessed', said that theirs was the 'kingdom of God', said that he had come to 'bring good news to the poor', and explained that the way we treat the poor is going to have special weight on how we are judged. Need I go on?

And why were the other popes--who also claimed to be following the gosples--not doing the exact same thing?

I have not made an exhaustive study of previous Popes and it would be unfair of me to suggest that they were hypocrites without a detailed study of their words and actions.

Why does this pope now consider this part of the gosples to deserve so much emphasis?

Well, in his own words:

For the Church, the option for the poor is primarily a theological category rather than a cultural, sociological, political or philosophical one. God shows the poor “his first mercy”.[163] This divine preference has consequences for the faith life of all Christians, since we are called to have “this mind… which was in Jesus Christ” (Phil 2:5). Inspired by this, the Church has made an option for the poor which is understood as a “special form of primacy in the exercise of Christian charity, to which the whole tradition of the Church bears witness”.[164] This option – as Benedict XVI has taught – “is implicit in our Christian faith in a God who became poor for us, so as to enrich us with his poverty”.[165] This is why I want a Church which is poor and for the poor. They have much to teach us. Not only do they share in the sensus fidei, but in their difficulties they know the suffering Christ. We need to let ourselves be evangelized by them. The new evangelization is an invitation to acknowledge the saving power at work in their lives and to put them at the centre of the Church’s pilgrim way. We are called to find Christ in them, to lend our voice to their causes, but also to be their friends, to listen to them, to speak for them and to embrace the mysterious wisdom which God wishes to share with us through them.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/f...The_special_place_of_the_poor_in_God’s_people

There is plenty more if you want to find out what his thoughts are.

I'm sorry, I don't buy it. I'm sure that he found support in the gosples for his actions; I just don't think that's the reason. It's way too convenient.

So the fact the ministry of Jesus Christ had a special emphasis on the poor, attested to in the Gospels, the fact there is much evidence that this was extremely significant to Francis before he became Pope, the fact that he writes about this at length and with great passion in his first extensive Exhortation, are all convenient cover for the 'real story', that the Pope is merely reflecting 'social trends'?

I think it's just the opposite. I think he's just reading the Book and not listening to Twitter. I think he is seeking to follow Jesus and not the world.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

I don't get it. We have a world with Rob Ford in it, and someone else gets the Person of the Year award?