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Police shooting, UK

zooterkin

Nitpicking dilettante, Administrator
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zooterkin
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A policeman has been shot and killed in the UK (the first such incident for several years). What's particularly bizarre about this is that the shooter was in custody in a police station at the time, with his hands cuffed behind him. He apparently retrieved a revolver hidden in his clothes (he had been searched, but was about to have a metal detector used on him) and shot the officer in the chest, and himself (not fatally) in the neck.

The suspect had been flagged over concerns about both rightwing and Islamist indoctrination, sources said, but nothing of concern was found. Mental health is also a consideration in the inquiry, with the suspect understood to have a learning disability – though whether this was a factor is yet to be determined.

...

On Friday night, the Independent Office of Police Conduct, which is investigating, said: “What we have established is that the man was arrested for possession of class B drugs with intent to supply and possession of ammunition. The man was handcuffed to the rear before being transported to Croydon custody suite in a police vehicle where he was escorted into the building. He remained handcuffed to the rear and seated in a holding area in the custody suite.

“His handcuffs remained in place while officers prepared to search him using a metal detector. It is at the point that shots were fired resulting in the fatal injuries to the officer and critical injuries to the man. A non-police issue firearm, which appears to be a revolver, has been recovered from the scene.”
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It is obviously a tragic death but I suspect the point of interest for most people will be why on earth the gun wasn't found before.
 
Darat said:
It is obviously a tragic death but I suspect the point of interest for most people will be why on earth the gun wasn't found before.
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Indeed, on both counts.

I have, through the friends and contacts I've made with local musicians (and, bizarrely, pagans), quite a few friends in the police. I may find out a bit more about this incident that might not be generally known in due course, but it's not something I'm going to speculate about on Facebook for now, since they are undoubtedly a bit sensitive about the death of a colleague at the moment.
 
cullennz said:
Is this the kiwi cop in England?
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Yes, I think so:
Sgt Matiu Ratana, 54, who was born in New Zealand, died in hospital on Friday after being shot as a handcuffed suspect was being checked in
...
Sgt Ratana - known as Matt - was shot in the chest at Croydon Custody Centre at about 02:15 BST on Friday.

After the shooting, the 23-year-old suspect is then thought to have shot himself.

The suspect had initially been arrested for an alleged drugs offence and possession of ammunition.

The shots were fired as officers prepared to search the suspect - who was still handcuffed - with a metal detector, according to watchdog the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC). He remains in a critical condition in hospital.
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(Link: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54306029)
 
I’d suspect that since officers in the UK so rarely encounter concealed firearms, they might not have done a comprehensive manual search.

This is not unheard of here, we were shown a graphic video of a fellow who was brought in for DWI and seated, cuffed but unattended, for a couple of minutes in a detention room prior to using the intoximeter. He pulls a full-sized .45 automatic from his clothes and shoots himself.....
 
Bikewer said:
I’d suspect that since officers in the UK so rarely encounter concealed firearms, they might not have done a comprehensive manual search.

This is not unheard of here, we were shown a graphic video of a fellow who was brought in for DWI and seated, cuffed but unattended, for a couple of minutes in a detention room prior to using the intoximeter. He pulls a full-sized .45 automatic from his clothes and shoots himself.....
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That one’s made it around the world, I think. I was shown it as a (horrible) illustration of how gunshot wounds aren’t like they are in films. As I recall he shoots himself, then just goes limp, and a little while later you see blood pour from his mouth.
 
Were this in the US, my next question would be "when was he testifying?"
 
Bikewer said:
I’d suspect that since officers in the UK so rarely encounter concealed firearms, they might not have done a comprehensive manual search.

This is not unheard of here, we were shown a graphic video of a fellow who was brought in for DWI and seated, cuffed but unattended, for a couple of minutes in a detention room prior to using the intoximeter. He pulls a full-sized .45 automatic from his clothes and shoots himself.....
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Unless you are thinking of an almost identical situation,I have seen the same one on video.
The guy 'said' he had a gun in his shoe while handcuffed and in the intake for jail. When officers checked his shoe, the handcuffed man managed to grab the cops gun...tussle ensued ...then he got a shot in the head. Dead.


man CUFFED BEHIND HIS BACK grabs officer's gun
 
If he was already found to have bullets on him, wasn't being in the station a tad late for checking him thoroughly? I mean, call me over prudent, but I'd have all but strip searched the bitch before putting him in the car.
 
catsmate said:
This. There was negligence somewhere I suspect.
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They just missed it in a pat down I imagine. For all we know he had it in the nether regions.
Are UK cops finding guns in pat downs these days? Do they know all the places to look? I would guess they dont find it anywhere near as much as cops in the US (and that is likely the biggest understatement on this site!).
With ammunition charges they should have really given this guy a good once over, but mistakes happen.
 
Bikewer said:
I’d suspect that since officers in the UK so rarely encounter concealed firearms, they might not have done a comprehensive manual search.
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I would agree except for one detail in the statement:

On Friday night, the Independent Office of Police Conduct, which is investigating, said: “What we have established is that the man was arrested for possession of class B drugs with intent to supply and possession of ammunition.
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Seems to me that would be a pretty big flag to search him throughly
 
To update some facts. The prisoner was handcuffed with his hands behind his back when he pulled the gun from his 'nether regions' as correctly guessed above. He was about to be re-searched including use of a metal detector when this happened, prior to being locked up.
 
Planigale said:
To update some facts. The prisoner was handcuffed with his hands behind his back when he pulled the gun from his 'nether regions' as correctly guessed above. He was about to be re-searched including use of a metal detector when this happened, prior to being locked up.
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Isn’t all that in the OP?
 
How do you shoot yourself in the neck with your hands cuffed behind you?

I'm not saying it can't be done but it does seem like a bizarre contortion would be required.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
How do you shoot yourself in the neck with your hands cuffed behind you?

I'm not saying it can't be done but it does seem like a bizarre contortion would be required.
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I read that it was during a struggle with colleagues of the policeman who was shot, so it might not have been the guy in handcuffs who was holding it at that time.
 
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