Pike River mine disaster

[gumboot]

Just wondering if anyone else has been following the Pike River Mine disaster?

In short, on Friday afternoon there was an explosion in this isolated coal mine on the west coast of the south island of New Zealand. Twenty nine miners are unaccounted for, and believed to be in the mine. There has been no contact with anyone since the explosion.

Thus far no rescue attempt has been staged inside the mine due to unsafe conditions inside the mine, however the mine is ventilated, and not thought to have collapsed.

Now, five days into the crisis, many are becomming frustrated with perceived lack of action by emergency services.

 

[lionking]

I've been following it and have been desperately sad about the whole thing.

Okay, I'm going to say it and no doubt be damned. There was no collapse and the passage way to the mine seemed clear (please correct me if this is not correct). But rescue workers were not sent down in case of the danger caused by a possible explosion. Sure, safety of rescuers is extremely important, but at the expense of doing nothing? The first responders at 9/11 would have done nothing based on this set of criteria.

Someone should have gone in the mine.

 

[Wildy]

We get some reports over here about it.

What sucks at the moment is that they seem to be running into all kinds of problems which is slowing down the rescue attempts.

 

[gumboot]

I've been following it and have been desperately sad about the whole thing.

Okay, I'm going to say it and no doubt be damned. There was no collapse and the passage way to the mine seemed clear (please correct me if this is not correct). But rescue workers were not sent down in case of the danger caused by a possible explosion. Sure, safety of rescuers is extremely important, but at the expense of doing nothing? The first responders at 9/11 would have done nothing based on this set of criteria.

Someone should have gone in the mine.

I think there's several factors at play in this situation.

It's interesting that you raised the point of the 9/11 First Responders. Had they thought there was a risk of collapse, they wouldn't have gone in, and 350 less people would have died. The FDNY didn't actually save anyone. Harsh, but true. In this instance, however, it's more complex.

Firstly, staging a rescue in this particular mine is a vast logistical undertaking - even to reach the staging area at the base of mining operations involves a 2.2km uphill hike. The Mines Rescue teams were saying that whoever first went in to establish a staging point at the pit bottom would have to immediately swap out.

Secondly, the risk of a second explosion is not a minor thing, nor only a risk to rescue squads. Numerous rescue attempts in coal mines had led to explosions that not only killed the rescuers, but those trapped in the mine. That helps no one.

Finally, there's something that hasn't explicitly been stated, but I suspect is playing a part in the caution in the rescue operation.

The harsh reality is that anyone who was going to die in that mine, died in the first hour or so, before emergency services were even on site. They were killed in the blast, or asphyxiated, or suffered severe wounds and bled out. If anyone was still alive in the mine by the time emergency services arrived, they were in no immediate danger, and there is therefore no urgency in rescuing them. They have fresh air, they have water (it's a very "wet" mine) and can survive for weeks without food. They may be wounded, but not with anything life threatening.

Based on that, proceeding with caution makes sense, and not taking unnecessary risks makes sense.

It's not something that's very popular, but the gung-ho disorganised response by the FDNY to 9/11 was appalling and caused totally unnecessary loss of life.

 

[quadraginta]

I've been keeping tabs open on the NZHerald webpage, and NewZealandNews.net., and checking them a couple times a day. Are there better sources I should be including?

The robot failure surprised me a bit. We've been using robotic cameras for inspecting utility pipes (storm drains, etc.) in construction for many years. I would have thought they'd have something that would work more dependably in mines by now.

 

[SezMe]

Firstly, staging a rescue in this particular mine is a vast logistical undertaking - even to reach the staging area at the base of mining operations involves a 2.2km uphill hike.

No roads? How do they get the ore out?

It has received very, very little coverage in the USA. I would have thought after the Chilean episode it would have been a worldwide media magnet.

 

[lionking]

It has received very, very little coverage in the USA. I would have thought after the Chilean episode it would have been a worldwide media magnet.

Sadly there will be no "miracle" outcome. Not newsworthy

 

[gumboot]

I've been keeping tabs open on the NZHerald webpage, and NewZealandNews.net., and checking them a couple times a day. Are there better sources I should be including?

The robot failure surprised me a bit. We've been using robotic cameras for inspecting utility pipes (storm drains, etc.) in construction for many years. I would have thought they'd have something that would work more dependably in mines by now.

The robot that was sent in isn't designed to operate in mines - it was an Army bomb disposal robot. My understanding is that it was struck by a torrent of water which disabled it (not "a few drops" as some have reported).

There is, I believe, only one robot in the entire world that is actually designed to operate in a mine - and it was built specifically for a mine rescue in the USA. Robots aren't generally used in mines because it's not a practical environment for them. To begin with, the fact that they're underground renders them unable to be operated wirelessly, so in this instance you have a robot dragging a mile or so of cable behind it.

 

[gumboot]

No roads? How do they get the ore out?

It has received very, very little coverage in the USA. I would have thought after the Chilean episode it would have been a worldwide media magnet.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The 2.2km uphill hike is AFTER they've entered the mine.

 

[Magenta]

I've been keeping tabs open on the NZHerald webpage, and NewZealandNews.net., and checking them a couple times a day. Are there better sources I should be including?

The robot failure surprised me a bit. We've been using robotic cameras for inspecting utility pipes (storm drains, etc.) in construction for many years. I would have thought they'd have something that would work more dependably in mines by now.

I found useful info on the Science Media Centre website:

Effectiveness of robots in mine rescue operations

Experts on explosion, conditions in the mine, rescue efforts

 

[a_unique_person]

From the description of the explosion, and the duration of it, I would doubt there is anyone left alive. A survivor of the explosion sounds like he was lucky to be in one piece it was so bad. It is not like Chile, where there was just a collapse, and the rest of the mine was intact. An explosion such as the one described would hit everyone inside.

It is sad, because there were many people caught down there. I also know I would never be able to do the job they do.

 

[Dave Rogers]

It has received very, very little coverage in the USA. I would have thought after the Chilean episode it would have been a worldwide media magnet.

It's in the headlines on the BBC, not top item but in the top three, so we have a little information over here. It seems very much like the rescue effort, like gumboot said, is focusing initially on not making things any worse. Which is, in the cold light of day, a sensible approach; the first thing I was taught on my first aid course was not to make myself into another casualty.

Dave

 

[Agatha]

There is a fair amount of coverage here, as Dave Rogers notes; perhaps partly because two of the miners are British.

 

[Wirelight]

Been watching this story here in Canada too.

Someone should have gone in the mine

You have obviously never taken a Confined Space or H2S Training Course have you?

Rule number 1: Don't let yourself be another victim.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Well, there is breathing apparatus designed for toxic gas mine rescue, but the problem here seems to be methane - it's the hazard of another explosion that's the main concern.

I must admit, I'd have thought some sort of temporary forced ventilation might be rigged from that vent pictured with smoke blackening. Enough forced draught could push the methane out to permit entry with BA.

But we have to assume the local mine rescue people know what they are doing and are familiar with the specific hazards in that mine.

 

[Alt+F4]

No roads? How do they get the ore out?

It has received very, very little coverage in the USA. I would have thought after the Chilean episode it would have been a worldwide media magnet.

I'm in the US and only check the news about twice a day, it has been reported here to the extent that even several of my 16-year-old students mentioned it today.

 

[MG1962]

No roads? How do they get the ore out?

It has received very, very little coverage in the USA. I would have thought after the Chilean episode it would have been a worldwide media magnet.

CNN have been carrying updates on their morning show since Saturday. They have also been giving room to the Chinese miners who were trapped and released yesterday - also 29 in number

 

[InfidelSavant]

I've been avoiding news of it here because the NZ media are being particularly vulturish.

 

[gumboot]

Well, there is breathing apparatus designed for toxic gas mine rescue, but the problem here seems to be methane - it's the hazard of another explosion that's the main concern.

That's quite right. One thing that should be pointed out is that while the Mines Rescue teams carry air filtering devices, they don't carry oxygen tanks because it's highly explosive.

But yeah, breathability isn't an issue - in fact the fact tha there's fresh air flowing into the mine is part of the problem as of course you need oxygen as well as gas to form an explosive atmosphere.

I must admit, I'd have thought some sort of temporary forced ventilation might be rigged from that vent pictured with smoke blackening. Enough forced draught could push the methane out to permit entry with BA.

I believe that has been underway. The problem here is you have to grasp how rough this terrain is. If you look through the photos on the nzherald website you'll find some of the drilling station they'd set up - it's literally on a narrow ridge in the middle of bush. And this is NZ West Coast bush we're talking about - you've never seen denser bush. This entire operation is underneath a National Park, so it's 100% wilderness. There's an access road to the mine entrance and support buildings, but all of the outlying areas of the mine are exceedingly isolated.

The Air Force has actually flown in ventilation fans, so I imagine what you've proposed is part of their plan, but it's not a quick fix to get it into position. If you think back to day one - they were prepping to drill into the mine to get air samples right from the outset, and only this morning (day six) has the first bore hole broken through. A long part of that delay was simply getting to the drilling sites - low cloud on day one made helicoptering in the gear impossible so crews had to carry it overland, literally cutting a 3km trail through dense bush.

The other problem is that there's a strong belief that combustion is still occuring in the mine, and producing the gas and high temperatures. Coal seam fires can continue to burn for decades and decades, even fully buried - the naturally burning coal seam at Burning Mountain in Australia is thought to have been burning for 6,000 years.

But we have to assume the local mine rescue people know what they are doing and are familiar with the specific hazards in that mine.

And also remeber that one of their squad members is trapped in the mine, so if they could go in, they would. There's a great deal of anger and frustration now arising from the families (understandably) including one family that has publicly stated they don't think the Police officer in charge of the rescue is capable of doing the job. There's a wide perception that the Mines Rescue teams want to go in, and are being prevented by overly cautious police, but my perception is that police are working off the advice of mining experts including the head of Mines Rescue, who all say it's not safe to go in.

Good news this morning however (relatively speaking), The Defence Force have managed to restart their robot and proceed deeper into the mine, while a second robot has also been deployed, and a third more robust robot from Australia has arrived.

 

[gumboot]

I've been avoiding news of it here because the NZ media are being particularly vulturish.

I agree. My disgust at the NZ media increases daily, to be honest. Although I suppose it's only the natural pattern for all media covering a disaster:

Day 1 - 2: coverage focuses on the disaster itself, the spectacle, rescue teams, response, etc

Day 3 - 4: Focus on "human stories" - the personal tales of tragedy

Day 5 onwards: time to start stirring the pot by playing the blame game. Who caused the disaster? Who should have prevented it? Why didn't authorities respond faster? Why didn't they respond better? Find dissenting voices amongst the crowd who, strung out with emotion and stress, will say something imflammatory.

Adjusting the timeline as appropriate, you could apply this exact same model to virtually any disaster ever. It's disgusting.