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Pigeonhole Yourself!

arthwollipot said:
Load of old cobblers. This is not how most people use the word.
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This is the problem with 'Left' and 'Right' and 'Capitalism' and 'Socialism'. They are not descriptive of anything useful and generally just used as unthinking cries of tribal allegiance.
 
The words are fine! You can't blame the words for people being ignorant about what they mean.
 
dann said:
The words are fine! You can't blame the words for people being ignorant about what they mean.
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What the words mean is constantly changing. As well as not being descriptive they have no utility (and are usually a hindrance) in coming up with solutions to problems.

1. Identify problem(s).
2. Propose solution(s) to problem(s).
3. Evaluate solution(s).
4. Decide on which solution(s) to implement.
5. Implement and monitor solution(s).

Guiding principles:

1(a). Treat others as they would wish to be treated.
1(b). Treat others as you would wish to be treated.

No need for 'Left' or 'Right' or 'Capitalism' or 'Socialism'.
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
What the words mean is constantly changing. As well as not being descriptive they have no utility (and are usually a hindrance) in coming up with solutions to problems.

1. Identify problem(s).
2. Propose solution(s) to problem(s).
3. Evaluate solution(s).
4. Decide on which solution(s) to implement.
5. Implement and monitor solution(s).

Guiding principles:

1(a). Treat others as they would wish to be treated.
1(b). Treat others as you would wish to be treated.

No need for 'Left' or 'Right' or 'Capitalism' or 'Socialism'.
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True, but you have to keep an eye on the systems, too. Overburdening systems can bring about The Fall of Rome. I guess that's your #5 in a way, but those systems are things like capitalism, socialism, social programs, etc. Even the laws themselves (and justice) form a system. Gotta maintain the pressure release valve or the boiler blows.

Maintenance costs (debt) can blow it, but so can pressure (peasants with pitchforks). Should we take fuel to service that debt from the big ol' gas tank or try to summon it from more locations but in smaller quantities? Basically that sort of thing. We can adjust as we go along, but you've gotta know which way to adjust in the present. Should probably include some sensors in there that tell you something about that (and it does, but people don't always check them before having opinions).
 
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Manopolus said:
True, but you have to keep an eye on the systems, too. Overburdening systems can bring about The Fall of Rome. I guess that's your #5 in a way, but
those systems are things like capitalism, socialism, social programs, etc. Even the laws themselves (and justice) form a system. Gotta maintain the pressure release valve or the boiler blows.

Maintenance costs (debt) can blow it, but so can pressure (peasants with pitchforks). Should we take fuel to service that debt from the big ol' gas tank or try to summon it from more locations but in smaller quantities? Basically that sort of thing. We can adjust as we go along, but you've gotta know which way to adjust in the present. Should probably include some sensors in there that tell you something about that (and it does, but people don't always check them before having opinions).
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Political ideologies are not systems. At best they are constraints for thinking about solutions to problems. More often they result in believers ignoring and distorting reality to the point of stupidity.

For example, last night I was listening to some guy on the radio who had presumably drunk the libertarian Kool Aid because he was opposed to having state funded healthcare, but was then proposing for people to join health insurance companies to spread the risk. Without explaining how or giving any actual examples with numerical data he believed having lots of insurance companies doing the same thing for profit would be better than one mutual insurance company funded by everybody.
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
Political ideologies are not systems. At best they are constraints for thinking about solutions to problems. More often they result in believers ignoring and distorting reality to the point of stupidity.

For example, last night I was listening to some guy on the radio who had presumably drunk the libertarian Kool Aid because he was opposed to having state funded healthcare, but was then proposing for people to join health insurance companies to spread the risk. Without explaining how or giving any actual examples with numerical data he believed having lots of insurance companies doing the same thing for profit would be better than one mutual insurance company funded by everybody.
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I wasn't so much criticizing/disagreeing as expanding on your vibe. Yeah, we do summarize types of systems with these vague words, and then they get even more vague as time rolls on. But they don't actually describe a course of action. You're right about that. That's the weakness of it. It's more a source for inspiration than it is a strategy.

...and to be perfectly 4th wall upfront, it fit a character sketch I was working on at the time -- engineers discussing politics. :D

Funny how those things go.
 
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Civilization is where the state has stopped exercising violence.
In all autocracies the state has a monopoly on the exercise of violence. It's also what democracies have in common with dictatorships.
As has been pointed out before, there is no such thing as Western civilization.
 
According to politicalcompass.org, I am solidly left-wing economically and moderately libertarian socially. My scores were similar to their guestimate of what the 2020 Green Party candidate in the US presidential election (Howie Hawkins) would have scored. This was a little surprising to me, as though I perceive myself to be a little more socially liberal than the average American, I definitely do not view myself as being very far to the left economically - definitely not in the Bernie Sanders segment. Though one might question the validity of their test, as they rate Biden as almost as right-wing economically and almost as authoritarian as _____; in fact, my economics score was farther to the left than their guestimate of Sanders' score.
 
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