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Pigeonhole Yourself!

Manopolus

Metaphorical Anomaly
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
8,738
Location
Brownbackistan
Okay, maybe the title is a bit misleading (for comic relief). I'm just inviting people to leave the current issues aside for the moment and discuss their particular political philosophy in general terms. Although I said "pigeonhole" I actually invite nuance with open arms. I'll go ahead and go first.

Economically, I'm a particular brand of progressive... but not the type that conservatives like to rant and rave against. Those would be academic liberals that took up the term because the old one was soiled so bad by the weaponization of sliding definitions started by Reagan. For me, progressivism is all about labor rights and social programs. I'd prefer that people leave their identity politics and broken identities out of it, but I'm also definitely not against equal rights and protections of any sort, either. I also see the side effects of laws that aim to do this, though.

...but I also see progressivism as a tool contained in a box labelled "break glass in case of oligarchy" in big red letters. It's a means, not an end. Its purpose is to restore balance when things are starting to go off the rails in a particular direction.

Extreme versions of progressivism would be communism/socialism, but I'm not afraid of those words, either. Where's my line as too far left? I actually think the government could function just fine as the landlord... we'd just have categorized lease agreements instead of titles and (hopefully lower) rent instead of taxes. I'm fairly confident that fair systems could be made with regard to land usage. Our governments actually already do that... just in different ways. I don't, however, think it works as a replacement for a capitalist system with regards to production or material goods other than land.

But here's the real kicker on the communist/socialist angle: The transition is the problem. There's no way to get from here to there which isn't extremely unfair. So... only viable in a completely broken system with a shiny new government. I don't condone that. Not worth it. And it's not so much that I advocate for a government monopoly on land as it is that I think it could possibly work if done right.

In summary, I'm an "Occupy Wall Street" sort of progressive, not a rebranded liberal elite extremist.

Socially (culturally), I'm a typical classical liberal, which leaves me agreeing with the right as much as the left (at least when things were normal, but they aren't nowadays). That means that socially, I value freedom above all else (for those that don't know what the word "liberal" actually means). I try to see the conflict between different people's freedom in different contexts... I know that sometimes BOTH sides of the conflict think that freedom is what they're fighting for. I only choose sides when I think that one is obviously being disingenuous (usually at the top, not the root). Otherwise, I actually can see that both sides have merit.

My angle on any particular issue always depends on nuance. These labels are descriptions, not oaths of fealty.

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Regarding the current political context, I'll admit to being against Donald Trump's very existence. Can't help it. He's literally everything I despise. No, it's not a mental illness. It's perfectly natural to be solidly against a known con artist who literally attempted a coup, for starters... especially if you're a veteran (which I am). But this is admittedly getting off my own topic. It's not about policy or philosophy (policy is secondary in his case). It's about the fact that he's a freaking traitor and a thief.
 
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Again, I wish there were still a non-local politics subforum. In US terms, I would be an extreme progressive Democrat, out beyond Bernie and AOC on the political spectrum. Tax the rich, get corporations and religions out of politics, LGBTQIA+ rights - you know, all the things that would get me detained at the border today. All the things.
 
Again, I wish there were still a non-local politics subforum. In US terms, I would be an extreme progressive Democrat, out beyond Bernie and AOC on the political spectrum. Tax the rich, get corporations and religions out of politics, LGBTQIA+ rights - you know, all the things that would get me detained at the border today. All the things.
You're certainly welcome here, Arth... as is anyone international that would like to chime in.
 
Again, I wish there were still
a non-local politics subforum. In US terms, I would be an extreme progressive Democrat, out beyond Bernie and AOC on the political spectrum. Tax the rich, get corporations and religions out of politics, LGBTQIA+ rights - you know, all the things that would get me detained at the border today. All the things.
Psst - there is.
 
Again, I wish there were still a non-local politics subforum. In US terms, I would be an extreme progressive Democrat, out beyond Bernie and AOC on the political spectrum. Tax the rich, get corporations and religions out of politics, LGBTQIA+ rights - you know, all the things that would get me detained at the border today. All the things.
Being nearly 70 years old, I happen to hold much the same politics. Or what we call in Australia: "normal".
 
Economically, I basically compromised over time. I'm not totally satisfied, but I keep seeking better answers. Basically, Capitalism has a lot to offer in production. It allows me to buy 25 cent ramen. But it has a billion warts, so I like to regulate it. basically, I think this makes me a social democrat.
Socially, I'm pretty darn left. I'm not too bothered about what your naughty bits look like, and in another compromise, I'm for religeous freedom because, despite the damage religeon can do, once it becomes a part of government, it gets worse. Basically, I want to protect the religeous from each other.
 
Somebody asked me many years ago where I was on the political spectrum. My reply was "I'm an Engineer".

The guy in this video points out how absurd trying to define yourself based on a political spectrum is.

 
I certainly feel that it is not productive to label absolutely everything on the left-right political spectrum, as is usually done in America. As a metaphor it has some value, but it doesn't have to be the be-all and end-all of political discourse.
 
We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune, we take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decisions of that officer must be approved at a bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs. But a two-thirds majority ...
 
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My political ideal is sort of like the Borg collective, except each Borg is Mona-Lisa Saperstein.
 
Economically, I basically compromised over time. I'm not totally satisfied, but I keep seeking better answers. Basically, Capitalism has a lot to offer in production. It allows me to buy 25 cent ramen. But it has a billion warts, so I like to regulate it. basically, I think this makes me a social democrat.
Socially, I'm pretty darn left. I'm not too bothered about what your naughty bits look like, and in another compromise, I'm for religeous freedom because, despite the damage religeon can do, once it becomes a part of government, it gets worse. Basically, I want to protect the religeous from each other.
Capitalism is the best economic system, apart from all the others that have been tried.

The thing is, for most of your life you haven't lived under capitalism, you've lived uner a mixed market system with significant public ownership and strong public regulation of the privately owned parts of the market. Every time a country has tried to introduce capitalism, it's economy collapsed inside of thirty years.
 
There's a difference between laissez-faire full free market capitalism, and just regular ordinary capitalism. Most developed countries have the latter, not the former.
 
There's a difference between laissez-faire full free market capitalism, and just regular ordinary capitalism. Most developed countries have the latter, not the former.
The first is the only kind of capitalism. Because it's the only thing that adheres to the essential character of the system, that no restrictions are placed on the owners of capital.
 
The first is the only kind of capitalism. Because it's the only thing that adheres to the essential character of the system, that no restrictions are placed on the owners of capital.
"True" capitalism involves chattel slavery, indentured slavery, etc. So... not on board. Not even a little bit. It's basically just oligarchy of the worst kind.

Because that's what "no restrictions placed on the owners of capital" means. It means they can own slaves. And even if you do outlaw the ownership of humans (and only that), you still get something very close to slavery, anyway.
 
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"True" capitalism involves chattel slavery, indentured slavery, etc. So... not on board. Not even a little bit. It's basically just oligarchy of the worst kind.

Because that's what "no restrictions placed on the owners of capital" means. It means they can own slaves. And even if you do outlaw the ownership of humans (and only that),
you still get something very close to slavery, anyway.
But the clever thing is you get your labour cheaper than keeping slaves, slaves are expensive.
 
Economic and fiscal conservative but mostly socially liberal. I'd classify myself as a small-l libertarian, but not interested in the LP. I've pretty much reached the point where I despise both major US parties and vote for the lesser of two weasels.
 
... I'm for religious freedom because, despite the damage religion can do, once it becomes a part of government, it gets worse. ...
Many people think so, but it's not actually true. It's not how it works.

Denmark has religious freedom, but religion is also "a part of government," much more so, actually, than in the USA where religion, like so much else, is privatized, i.e. is run like a business:
Church of Denmark (Wikipedia)
The Evangelical-Lutheran Church in Denmark or National Church (Danish: Folkekirken lit. 'the People's Church', or unofficially den danske folkekirke, 'the Danish People's Church'; Greenlandic: Ilagiit lit. 'the Congregation'), sometimes called the Church of Denmark, is the established, state-supported church in Denmark. The supreme secular authority of the church is composed of the reigning monarch and Denmark's Parliament, the Folketing. As of 1 January 2025, 70.7% of the population of Denmark are members, though membership is voluntary.
See also the paragraph: Separation of church and state

The Church of Denmark has worked wonders (!) for the secularization of Danes - and again: very much unlike the situation in the USA!
More here: The Death of Religion - not with a bang but with a whimper (ISF, Mar 20, 2009)

As for the theme of this thread: I'm what's actually Radical Left.
See sig line:
 
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