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PETA Dresses Like KKK for Westminster Dog Show

Personally, I'm all in favour of breeding dogs out of existence.

Anything which contributes to that has my vote.
 
PETA and I agree that there is something wrong in the idea that pure bred dogs are more beautiful and most desirable than "mongrels" and that it is wrong that, as a result, mixed breed dogs are often treated worse by humans.

The idea that discriminating against certain type of dogs is equivalent to racial prejudice, however, is just bonkers.

Human beings aren't dogs. There are about a million things you can do to a dog that you can't do to a person. African-Americans aren't dogs. Treating a black person badly because of the color of his or her skin is not the same as treating a dog badly because of his or her breed.
 
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Generally I think winning supporters and changing minds ranks fairly low on their priority list.

From their behavior, yes. Everything they do in the way of getting their message across backfires, and just confirms the general..and totally justified...opinion they are a bunch of wackjobs.
That about the only support they get is from a few show biz celebs just confirms my low opinion of show biz celebs involvement with public issues in
general.
 
Generally I think winning supporters and changing minds ranks fairly low on their priority list.

No, attention is what's high on their list. That's why they submitted a commercial for the Super Bowl (which got denied, which they used for publicity since they couldn't afford to actually pay for the spot anyway). That's why they do this. That's why they support the legal defense funds of ELF members caught destroying property. It's all about trying to position their cause as some twisted underdog.

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Personally, I'm all in favour of breeding dogs out of existence.

Anything which contributes to that has my vote.

Well, then PETA (or HSUS) certainly has the flavor you're looking for.

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PETA and I agree that there is something wrong in the idea that pure bred dogs are more beautiful and most desirable than "mongrels" and that it is wrong that, as a result, mixed breed dogs are often treated worse by humans.

The idea of dog shows isn't that pure bred dogs are more beautiful. Dog shows accept new breeds when there are enough of them to constitute a 'standard' and will judge the dogs according to that standard. The awards given are given to dogs that best represent their respective breeds, not trying to judge which (types of) dogs are more desirable than others.

That said, I have my own problems with how certain breeding standards are taken too far with specific breeds. My German Shepherd is a perfect example of a dog that can meet the standard in terms of being able to work, but compared to the nearly-crippled US breed confirmation he's not even close to standard (though he's definitely within standard for European lines). That's a flaw with letting the practice (of dog breeding) become too niche and not concentrating on the practicalities of maintaining the standards. Not all breeds have this problem, but enough do that I feel bad for a majority of dogs in that breed.

The idea that discriminating against certain type of dogs is equivalent to racial prejudice, however, is just bonkers.

The fact that PETA has brought that kind of language into the issue of dog breeding is the bonkers part. As I said, dog shows aren't about pitting one breed against another in a desirability contest. Each breed is judged along its own standards, nothing more. PETA has twisted what dog shows are in the first place, and that contributes to the problem. It's how ideas like "such-and-such breed is a bad/dangerous/evil kind of dog" are propagated, and those myths move through different breeds every generation or two. Currently the bad/dangerous/evil dog is pitt bulls (not an actual standard, by the way), and along with them many dog breeds (like the Staffordshire Bull Terrier) that may or may not look similar to pitts. It's so bad these days that a Labrador cross could attack someone and it would be reported as a pitt bull attack, which is really not much different than the days that German Shepherds, Dobermans, and other dogs suffered the same bad press because of misconceptions about what the characteristics of different breeds mean.

Human beings aren't dogs. There are about a million things you can do to a dog that you can't do to a person. African-Americans aren't dogs. Treating a black person badly because of the color of his or her skin is not the same as treating a dog badly because of his or her breed.

There is plenty wrong with treating a dog badly because of its breed, though, and that should not be mistaken. The misconceptions that lead to people treating one breed or a group of breeds more badly than others is based in the same twisting of delineation of dog breeding that PETA engages in regularly. A dog is a dog is a dog, whether it's a specific breed or a mongrel, the latter of which is simply a mixture of the former anyway in most cases today (though there are still exceptions, mostly pariah dogs or breeds).

Also, what are some of the "million things you can do to a dog that you can't do to a person" you mention? I'd argue that almost all of them are just as unethical to do to dogs regardless of the legal repercussions, and I'm fairly confident that most people would agree.
 
Showing their true allegience for those who had not figured out the kind of slime they always were. Good of them.
 
Isn't that kind of what they're protesting about?

No, they're protesting to build a straw man idea regarding dog shows, so that they can knock it down and use the misconception to claim their cause just.

Don't get me wrong, I consider the majority of dog show folk to be eerily like the caricatures portraying them in the comedy "Best in Show," but the falsehoods being trotted out by PETA about what dog shows are is more damaging to dogs than making fun of flaky dog show people.
 
My better half is on some mailing lists with some of the folks who do these dog shows-- she does as well, but mostly locally and she doesn't hang out with the flaky crowds-- and one of the people who was there sent a message to a mailing list describing her experience. Here's a snippet of her account:

If PeTA had to pick a costume to wear they picked the correct one, people were offended on so many levels; consequently, PeTA's message was mostly overlooked in the yelling matches that ensued. We almost had a racial incident, a woman laid into them for wearing the outfits, the crowd grew, telephones came out, and more folk showed up to yell at the ARistas. My friend who is from Chicago told me to get ready to run, but I applauded the folk who were saying their piece.

BTW, there were several cops behind us and we chatted with them, they were totally unintersted in PeTA's 'message' but seemed quite interested in 'our' message re PeTA's real role in 'rescuing' animals.

Turns out there was almost at least one fight during the protest, which was only a few hours long anyway.
 
Their goal, according to a post on the PETA website, was to draw a parallel between the KKK and the American Kennel Club. "Obviously it's an uncomfortable comparison," PETA spokesman Michael McGraw told the Associated Press.

Seems to me that it also draws a parallel between some of the tactics of the KKK and some of the tactics of PETA. If I were PETA I'd think that was an uncomfortable comparison.
 
They are? Where do you get that from?

Eh, I'm going to go with EeneyMineyMoe on this one. You rarely see purebred dogs wind up in pounds or animal shelters, or become strays. Though it's not really out of any conscious "racism" (you can't imagine how hard I rolled my eyes just typing that word), but for a much more basic reason:

Purebred dogs cost money. Quite a bit of it, too. People who invest hundreds or thousands of dollars in an animal are, by and large, going to take better care of it than someone who gets a mutt for $20 from the local shelter.

Think of it like cars...Someone who buys a brand-new BMW 7-series is more likely to take care of it than someone who buys a 20-year-old used Honda Civic.

So yeah, I'd agree that purebreds are probably treated better than mixed breeds, but it's not doggie "racism" (gah!), just simple economics.
 
Oh yeah, THAT'S going to win supporters and change minds. Brilliant.

Honestly, at this point I think PETA is just interested in getting attention. Good, bad, they don't really care; they just like being a spectacle.

I'm sure most of the kids involved are probably decent enough people, but they just don't think these things through.

In the end, PETA does for vegetarians what NAMBLA does for homosexuals.
 
Isn't that kind of what they're protesting about?

That's the way it should be! PETA often compares the conditions of animals to the conditions of humans and argues that animals should be treated as equals to ourselves and that's just not right.

Farming is not comparable to slavery or vice-versa. Killing an animal is wrong, yes, but it's not murder. Producing vast amounts of chicken nuggets is not genocide (something they tried to argue in that idiotic campaign they had comparing animal slaughter to the Holocaust.)

Treating pit bulls as dangerous beasts but Dobermans as fine is not the same as discriminating against people of color or religious minorities. Cockfighting/dogfighting is cruel- very cruel- but not comparable to what the Romans did to their slaves.

Also, what are some of the "million things you can do to a dog that you can't do to a person" you mention? I'd argue that almost all of them are just as unethical to do to dogs regardless of the legal repercussions, and I'm fairly confident that most people would agree.

Well, since PETA themselves equated pure breeding to discrimination against blacks- breeding dogs together in an effort to create the kind of dogs you want is problematic, yes, but that's something not immoral or illegal to do. However, if you did that to two slaves (which was once a common practice in America), it would be a crime worse than rape.

Killing and eating an animal may be something you object to but it's not murder or cannibalism, as it would be with a person. You can take away an animal's offspring from them for your own purposes, brand them, tag them, force them to fight one another for your amusement (still legal in some places), put them in zoos or circuses, take away the products they produce (eggs, milk, honey), have them do jobs or work for you (guard dogs, farm horses), use their body parts (sheep's wool, a horse's hair), all things you can't do to a person. I'm sure it's not very pleasant for a sheep to be sheared but it's not a crime the way scalping someone or stealing someone's hair and selling it would be.

Discriminating against African-Americans is against the law. Discriminating against some dog breeds isn't. If a foster family only wanted to take white children and not blacks or Hispanics, I'd think they were awful people. If a family only wanted to buy a pure-breed for themselves and refused to adopt a mixed breed from an animal shelter, all I might think is that these people are not very kind to animals.
 
They are? Where do you get that from?

Like Cleon said, mutts are more likely to be in shelters and more likely to be raised on a cheaper budget than purebreeds. It's because owners view their pets' pedigree as a status symbol and value a pure dog more and invest more in a pure-bred dog than they would in a shelter mutt.

Edit: To be fair, pure breeds go through alot, too. Being bred like crazy when they are the flavor of the month and then falling in popularity ends up with alot of them abandoned. And they are more likely to suffer from congenital defects.
 
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Farming is not comparable to slavery or vice-versa. Killing an animal is wrong, yes, but it's not murder. Producing vast amounts of chicken nuggets is not genocide (something they tried to argue in that idiotic campaign they had comparing animal slaughter to the Holocaust.)

Do you see how you have to move beyond the topic of dog shows there? That's having a different conversation altogether, which (and no offense intended) is something PETA excels at doing, because it makes it easier to build the straw men.

Treating pit bulls as dangerous beasts but Dobermans as fine is not the same as discriminating against people of color or religious minorities.

I would submit that treating putt bulls as dangerous beasts and dobermans as fine is still wrong and bad for all dogs in general. I'm actively saying that PETA's protest is promoting this misconception that is already common in the US and other places.

Cockfighting/dogfighting is cruel- very cruel- but not comparable to what the Romans did to their slaves.

Again, you're getting way off tangent here by mentioning the games in ancient Rome. The pop-culture idea of what went on and what really went on are the same in concept but the details and conditions are far different.

Well, since PETA themselves equated pure breeding to discrimination against blacks- breeding dogs together in an effort to create the kind of dogs you want is problematic, yes, but that's something not immoral or illegal to do. However, if you did that to two slaves (which was once a common practice in America), it would be a crime worse than rape.

What do you actually know about dog breeding outside of AR rhetoric? Do you understand the idea of breeding to a standard and not breeding to create some desired "kind of dogs" just because someone wants one. There are people who do breed "designer" dogs, and as far as I know reputable breeders dislike that practice. Additionally, literally all of the reputable breeders I have known or have met make no profit off the dogs they sell, and generally frown on those who breed and sell dogs for profit. You should really re-think some of your preconceptions about what a breeder actually does, and the difference between responsible breeders-- which are what groups like the various kennel clubs try to promote-- and the irresponsible breeders who are trying to make a buck from mistreating animals.

Killing and eating an animal may be something you object to but it's not murder or cannibalism, as it would be with a person.

Bringing veg[etari]an equating arguments in is nowhere near a rational example. I have to feed my cats food that comes from the meat of other animals, and they would (and have, actually) kill and eat on their own if they weren't kept by me. Eating meat for sustenance is not some kind of objective moral wrong. It can be an ethical issue for people sapient enough to conclude it is an issue and who are capable of adjusting accordingly, but unless you can tell me a restaurant in the US where I can get some dog meat you're basically creating a red herring anyway.

You can take away an animal's offspring from them for your own purposes, brand them, tag them, force them to fight one another for your amusement (still legal in some places), put them in zoos or circuses, take away the products they produce (eggs, milk, honey), have them do jobs or work for you (guard dogs, farm horses), use their body parts (sheep's wool, a horse's hair), all things you can't do to a person. I'm sure it's not very pleasant for a sheep to be sheared but it's not a crime the way scalping someone or stealing someone's hair and selling it would be.

Most of what you mentioned applies in no way to mongrel dogs. Can you at least try to stay on-subject? As for working, dogs are very much like (most) people in that they tend to prefer to have something to keep them occupied. Dogs who work or perform tasks usually enjoy the work and would be less happy or possibly even basket-cases without them. Other dogs aren't as inclined to work, but those dogs are not typically made to do so. Dogs of different types have spent the last 15,000 years adapting to various conditions of the people they've grown familiar with. This is actually how so many different breeds have developed, because they evolve so quickly that within just a few generations one kind of dog could resemble something totally different with normal, natural environmental changes. Add to that the instinctual desires inherent in hunting dogs to hunt, working dogs to crave direction, etc., and you have variations of behavioral traits in dogs that, if not addressed by the people they're familiar with, would be harmful to the dogs themselves.

Discriminating against African-Americans is against the law. Discriminating against some dog breeds isn't. If a foster family only wanted to take white children and not blacks or Hispanics, I'd think they were awful people. If a family only wanted to buy a pure-breed for themselves and refused to adopt a mixed breed from an animal shelter, all I might think is that these people are not very kind to animals.

Bull***t, pure and simple. Just because you have that straw man built up in your mind does not in any way resemble the reality out there in the real world. Both dogs in my home right now are rescues, but the fact that neither of them are mongrels (well, we're not totally sure about the GSD) has nothing to do with why they were chosen. One came into the home because she had a need for a home, and the other came into the home because he would have been put to sleep otherwise. If I could personally save every healthy dog on their way to be put down I would, but I haven't the means nor the property for it. The fact that you make up such awful assumptions about why people in general would take in a dog displays more about your own understanding than the motives of others. I'd say that I'm not an average pet owner because my household is active and in regular contact with rescue networks, but in general average households tend to look for youth and friendliness as the main factors when shopping for dogs, whether purchasing or adopting. The older ones tend to get put down or are taken into homes like mine.

So, can you please give some examples of the "million things" that are actually done to dogs that you can't do to people? Try to remember to stay within the discussion of dogs and not try to turn it into a veg[etari]an argument or a history discussion. We're talking about dogs and we're talking about now... or, at least, I am.
 

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