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Pentagon Videos

MarcoPolo

Student
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
32
So one theme I hear constantly from the CT crowd is something along these lines.

I still believe that the release of additional video showing the Pentagon being damaged will give credibility to one or the other side and not both. Why won't they release those videos?

I believe we have enough physical evidence along with eyewitness testimony to believe the story we're told, but I guess there are those out there that need to see more video evidence.

I did a quick search here to see if it's been covered and didn't find anything. (It was a quick search... not very thorough, so I apologize ahead of time if I missed it.)

But are there videos out there we haven't seen yet that might possible prove to these people once and for all that what they're saying (the offical story that is) happened actually happened?

Personally, I'm not putting it past the current administration that they might be holding on to these videos and release them when it helps them politcally.

Any other thoughts?

For example, do we have current video footage from any of these other cameras that would prove it would have captured what happened that day?

Thanks!
David
 
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I've seen three videos: the security booth at the Pentagon, the gas station and the hotel. The last two were useless. I've also heard that the FBI has many other videos that it hasn't release yet. Not sure if this is true.

If there are additional videos this is how the conspiracy liars will spin it:
1. If they show no plane = legit
2. If they show a plane = they have been tampered with

End of story
 
If there are additional videos this is how the conspiracy liars will spin it:
1. If they show no plane = legit
2. If they show a plane = they have been tampered with

Sadly, this is what I believe as well.

I'll casually ask a CTer if they would ever be willing to accept that it happened they way the 9-11 Commission says it happened and I don't think I've ever had a 'yes' answer.

It's always, "with what we already know, it's impossible for it to be true," or "depends on the new evidence and who's responsible for it."

They always leave the window open so they always have an out.

In my mind, if a video was released showing the plane hitting the pentagon, they'll claim the reason they waited so long to release it is because they needed that time to do the necessary CGI work on the video.

Ugh. Seems to be a never ending series of questions with no real quest for the truth.
 
I've seen three videos: the security booth at the Pentagon, the gas station and the hotel. The last two were useless. I've also heard that the FBI has many other videos that it hasn't release yet. Not sure if this is true.

If there are additional videos this is how the conspiracy liars will spin it:
1. If they show no plane = legit
2. If they show a plane = they have been tampered with

End of story

I wouldn't say the CITGO video was completely useless. It did prove that one of the twoofers "star" witnessess wasn't actually staninding outside by the pump like he claimed.
 
I wouldn't say the CITGO video was completely useless. It did prove that one of the twoofers "star" witnessess wasn't actually staninding outside by the pump like he claimed.

I don't think I've seen this video. Can you provide a link to it?
 
I've seen three videos: the security booth at the Pentagon, the gas station and the hotel.
There were two Pentagon security videos, so that makes four videos released. After the Pentagon crash, the FBI went around to every place in the area that had a security camera and took the tape as possible evidence. They ended up with 80-ish tapes.

After the Mussaoui trial, the group Justice Watch filed an FOIA request to get the videos released - I think they asked for any videos showing the plane approaching or the explosion. The court says that they assigned someone to look at all the tapes, and these four were the only ones that showed anything at all. It would make sense that most of the others simply showed the parking lot outside their building, since that's what security cameras are for.

Many Troothers claim that there have to be more security tapes from the Pentagon itself, but I haven't seen any evidence of that. There are things mounted to the tops of the exterior walls that look like they could hold cameras, but I'm not convinced they are, and even if they are, there is no evidence that the video from them gets recorded.

So it looks like the four we have, are all we'll ever have.
 
I worked at the Pentagon for 7 years and was present during the crash.

There are video cameras in lots of strategic places in the Pentagon but it is a Very big place and the four posted are probably all that there are. There should have been literally hundreds of witnessess on the roads and interstates that run along that side of the Pentagon. Immediately after the strike, I and many others were interviewed and I am certain that the descriptions fit the profile of the actual plane that hit the Pentagon. A lot of witnesses have posted stories since then but I suspect most of them didn't really see anything.

Many of my friends in their offices thought a generator had exploded since a lot of construction work was going on at the time. I had just heard of the Planes hitting the twin towers and knew immediately what had happened.
 
I think the FBI seized video from 84 places in the vicinity, but pretty much all of them would be on the other side of the elevated highway, in Crystal City or Pentagon City, such as around the Doubletree Hotel. There, the view of the Pentagon is poor or non-existent.

All the areas highlighted in magenta have an appropriate view of the Pentagon, to have captured the impact or something. The buildings on the bottom of the map are high-rise apartment or condo buildings and the Doubletree. They would need cameras on the roof, pointing in the appropriate direction, which is not likely. The Navy Annex is the only other possibility. The VA highway department may also have had video, but my understanding is that they only took live feed and did not record video.

Pentagonview-small.jpg
 
I worked at the Pentagon for 7 years and was present during the crash.

There are video cameras in lots of strategic places in the Pentagon but it is a Very big place and the four posted are probably all that there are. There should have been literally hundreds of witnessess on the roads and interstates that run along that side of the Pentagon. Immediately after the strike, I and many others were interviewed and I am certain that the descriptions fit the profile of the actual plane that hit the Pentagon. A lot of witnesses have posted stories since then but I suspect most of them didn't really see anything.

Many of my friends in their offices thought a generator had exploded since a lot of construction work was going on at the time. I had just heard of the Planes hitting the twin towers and knew immediately what had happened.

Welcome to JREF.

The conspiracy stories are very strange indeed and don't jive with reality, the facts, what witnesses saw, and the evidence.

Obviously, I-395 is a busy place in the morning. I've travelled by the Pentagon, countless times on Washington Blvd, at all times of day and week. In the morning, around 8-9 and sometimes later, traffic is often backed up and at a crawl on Washington Blvd, heading towards the Memorial Bridge and Rosslyn. Traffic may have not been that heavy after 9:30 a.m., but surely lots of people were on the road and around to see what happened. And, not everyone spoke to the media.
 
I hear this claim a lot as well- the problem being that the conspiracists try to claim that the Pentagon must have some security cameras (inside and out) that they have not released. (argument from incredulity)

I've asked time and time again for evidence of this- and the best thing anyone could ever come up with is a 2 second mention from "In Plane Site" which just makes the same claim, but shows what looks to be camera domes (presumably at the Pentagon) when it makes the claim.

Even if these cameras are there (and- in all likelihood, they are)- they are almost certainly pointed out- not at the point of impact. This is also assuming that the cameras and the footage (if there is even any footage being recorded, as opposed to live-only feeds) survived... it most likely still doesn't show anything because of the recording speed.

Add that to the fact that the burden of proof is still on the conspiracist- the claim that "the tapes haven't been released" is not evidence.

Oh... and this is the Pentagon, we're talking about. I'm betting that obtaining security footage from the friggen Pentagon isn't something that just happens in order to appease some crazy conspiracists.

We have the footage we need. That, some eyewitnesses, flight path damage, FDR, DNA, etc, etc, etc.

Plus- I always point out that we have TONS of footage of the planes hitting the towers, and that doesn't seem to change anyones minds. And if they do believe that real planes really hit the towers- then their claim about a missile hitting the Pentagon gets a little ridiculous... not that they even care.

It's really just a bad fallacious argument they're trying to get away with.
 
http://www.flight77.info/

The above is a Woo site, full blown, but the guy is a good researcher and has recieved replies on many requests for the videos.

In one of the replies to him, it expressed that an FBi agent had reviewed all of the available tapes, and of the 84 alleged, only 13 show the area where the plane hit, and of those 13 only one actually caught any images of the imact, and that one was released. There are alot of things on the site that are of interest, even to the non-woo.

TAM:)
 
In case you doubted his wooness, here is a quote on his intepretation of a video where people are running from the towers, before they collapsed...

July 3, 2007
This video is amazing. It really goes to the heart of the story. In the video, you can see that both towers are standing. And hundreds of people are running away because they have been warned that the towers are about to fall. The towers were built to withstand an impact from a fully loaded 707 (the largest plane of the day). No one should have been worried that the towers were going to fall. No one should have been able to predict that they were going to come down. Yet the Office of Emergency Management somehow knew and sent out the warning. This is a big smoking gun.

TAM:)
 
http://www.flight77.info/

The above is a Woo site, full blown, but the guy is a good researcher and has recieved replies on many requests for the videos.

In one of the replies to him, it expressed that an FBi agent had reviewed all of the available tapes, and of the 84 alleged, only 13 show the area where the plane hit, and of those 13 only one actually caught any images of the imact, and that one was released. There are alot of things on the site that are of interest, even to the non-woo.

TAM:)

The owner of that site was apparently instrumental in getting some of the tapes released (he once made a good case for Judicial Watch stealing the credit). Some of what he had to say a year or so back was a little rational. But I guess in the end he wanted to remain in the 911Truth movement so I suspect he found himself forced to remove that material from his website (or perhaps I just don't know where to look once he changed the link to it?). In any case, here are a few his entries from a year ago that I think folks will find interesting. I bolded the last bit because it is so true.

*************************************************

"UPDATE 3/9/6

if you're new to the concept that 9/11 was an inside job, as you look further
you're going to find a lot of conflicting information online from people all
claiming to be 9/11 truth seekers, 9/11 skeptics, or in the 9/11 truth movement,
etc.

the collective working to reveal what actually happened on 9/11; this movement
can be viewed as a two tiered front - divided (often bitterly) by the nebulous
debate on what hit the pentagon: was it 757 or was it anything other than a 757?

people like myself, who think it is highly HIGHLY likely that a 757 did hit the
pentagon wish the 757/no-757 debate would go away (hence this FOIA lawsuit) so
that people can spend their time on more productive research to help prove the
truth about what happened on 9/11.

people who believe that anything other than a 757 hit the pentagon, also
(typically) believe the planes that hit the WTC buildings were loaded with
missile pods. many of these people also believe that UFOs were doing a lot of
work flying around on 9/11.

essentially, people who are open minded enough to believe that 9/11 was an
inside job tend to be a little too open minded in general - which is not a bad
thing. but this mind set makes them susceptible to some of the most outlandish
conspiracy theories - some of which were cooked up by people with highly dubious
motives designed to discredit the 9/11 truth movement for whatever reasons.

if you think you might be wandering in the land of far out 9/11 conspiracy
theories, take some time to read these URLs.

-911truth.org - pod theory
-whatreallyhappened.com - pod people
-oilempire.us - pentagon hoax
-questionsquestions - pentagon debate
-deception dollar (list of legit 9/11sites)

it's my strong opinion that you view with GREATEST skepticism any 9/11 or
pentagon videos that are provocative and flashy with hip music beats - such as
'in plane site' and 'loose change' and 'pentagon strike'... also, be weary of of
these sites: webfairy, letsroll911 and any others that promote pod and missile
theories.

finally but not last - the 9/11 forum at democraticunderground has recently been
taken over by the pod people - which is a big loss since that forum used to be a
great source for critical analysis and research.

****************

UPDATE 3/24/6

i hate sort of beating-up on certain segments of the collective of people who
are skeptical about the official version of happened on 9/11... but here i go
again: scholars for 9/11 truth: another just provocative web site. how can you
tell? among other things, on their home page, they promote the 9/11 music video
called 'loose change' that offers up every crack pot pod missile theory in the
book. 'loose change' is out there just to provoke people emotionally. its
substance is in its appeal to teens and twentysomethings. so why are the
'scholars for 9/11 truth' aligning themselves with a tin hat munching 9/11 music
video? why are the 'scholars for 9/11 truth' also promoting the no 757 theory?
answer: the web site is just provocative. it's using the blanket (AKA 'big
tent'; throwing enough ◊◊◊◊ at the wall) approach to attract more people to the
concept that 9/11 was an inside job. then by magic, one of these new people will
uncover the proof we need to hang the true conspirators.

what's wrong with this 'scholarly' approach? anyone? anyone ? bueler? bueler?

once bush & co reach the end of their reign - that's the finish line, they win.
once those powers-that-be are out of power, people lose interest. we need to get
'em for 9//11 while they're in office if we're going to end this endless war on
terrorism.

so the problem with the scholars for 9/11 truth's throw-enough-◊◊◊◊-at-the-wall
approach is that they're spinning a new generation of 9/11 skeptics into 9/11
goofballs who are going to spend the next 2 1/2 years looking at the same old
pictures of the pentagon going, 'gee, that IS a small hole...' and who will
spend endless hours replaying the WTC video trying to see the missile pods.

what does it gain the 9/11 truth movement if everyone is a member - but we're
all full of ◊◊◊◊ reciting misinformation?

the purpose of the 9/11 truth movement isn't to have more members - it's to end
the war on terrorism while it's still possible. and time is really running out.

*************

UPDATE 5/5/6

for those wondering, we're still on the case. now that the strangeness with
moussaoui is over, my attorney and myself expect a judgment on our case any day.
the govt's argument for withholding the CD ROM is now moot.

many people suspect the video will be faked. to that i say - get a grip. at
some point you need to accept the evidence. if you're so reluctant to even
consider that a 757 hit the pentagon, you might be stroking 9/11. the conspiracy
has no limits in your mind and you're just so into the idea that no 757 hit the
pentagon, you've closed your otherwise open mind. this is where 9/11 has become
like a religion for many people. what you believe happened on 9/11 is your
BELIEF BELIEF - and any evidence to the contrary is just crazy.

***************

UPDATE 5/16/6

here is the: video from youtube.com - this is not our copy. i'll post our copy
when it arrives. i'm not in DC and must arrange to have it delivered.

please note that we still have a second FOIA request active for the other 84
flight 77 recordings. we WILL get those also. they should include the citgo tape
and the doubletree hotel tape (there's no sheraton hotel tape, BTW).

**************

UPDATE 5/17/6

here is the reason behind the timing, and the reason why the DOJ released the
latest video (and is withholding the other 84): in our original FOIA request we
asked for recordings of the IMPACT of flight 77. the DOJ replied that they had
only 1 video responsive to our original request and that was the video they just
released; the only recording of the impact. they released this video now due to
the may 26th deadline our judge gave to the DOJ. it had nothing to do with any
outstanding action by judicial watch. (judicial watch's FOIA lawsuit was filed a
full year after we filed our suit. it was a piggie-back lawsuit in anticipation
of the resolution of our lawsuit - intended to gain media attention.)

the only reason the other 84 recordings are being withheld is because we were
too specific with the term impact in our original FOIA. the other recordings
simply don't show the impact. it's not a conspiracy thing as judicial watch is
suggesting. it was our lawsuit that revealed the other recordings, and now to
get them we have a second FOIA request.

i was listening to an interview with the head of judicial watch and the guy is
bewildered why the other recordings haven't been released. he doesn't know why
because he hasn't read the full documentation on which he's piggie-backing.
instead he's making it sound like a deeper conspiracy.

if judicial watch didn't fling their legs open to the media wearing a dress of
limited understanding of what was being released and why - we would have been
able to explain these details to everyone in the beginning.

*****************

UPDATE 5/24/6

not all 9/11 skeptics are conspiracy theorists. you don't need to think a
missile hit the pentagon to believe that 9/11 was an inside job. hard-core
conspiracy theorists (CTs) set up shop within the 9/11 truth movement very
early. CTs get their joy from promoting and inventing theory (not in seeking
accuracy) where accuracy gaps exist. since 9/11 is so full of accuracy gaps, CTs
have flourished heavily. it is frequently difficult to know if you're
communicating with a CT, or someone who is sincerely interested in filling in
the 9/11accuracy gaps with information gained from actual investigation.

most, if not all CTs hang out on the planet called, 'anything other than a 757
hit the pentagon'. it is on this planet that CTs have built their cities. they
ARE a movement - it's the '9/11 conspiracy theory movement'. this movement
should not be confused with the '9/11 truth movement' - they are very different
movements.

one of the more popular cities on planet 9/11 CT is called, 'scholars for 9/11
truth' [the only wikipedia definition i've ever seen being considered for
deletion]. this is a relatively new organization, and support the highly dubious
judicial watch. while having many well-meaning members, there is no denying that
'scholars for 9/11 truth' neither acts in scholarly ways, nor do they promote
accuracy (also known as 'truth'). instead S911T hump to no end the notion that
something other than a 757 hit the pentagon.

****************

UPDATE 6/7/6

the 9/11 truth movement, today, is fueled by the theory that something other
than a 757 hit the pentagon on 9/11. if you're interested in being a happy
member of the group of people known now as 'the 9/11 truth movement' - you're
going to have accept a few things: 1) no 757 hit the pentagon. 2) aliens may
have been involved in the overall 9/11 plot. 3) if planes actually did hit
buildings on 9/11, they were likely loaded with missiles... also, know your JFK
assasination trivia well, and have an original theory to throw out to the group
from time to time. you get special cool points for insights into JFK and aliens.
[this is not a rip on the JFK assasination or UFO crowd]

this is the way it is NOW. i don't know how the 9/11 truth movement was
originally. i got into the scene late (about 2 years ago). it doesn't really
matter the way it was originally - now it is just an echo of hope that the truth
will bring the real conspirators to justice. now, the 9/11 truth movement is a
playground for people who prefer theories over accuracy, and a field filled with
opportunities for profit.

now, there is very little actual on-the-ground, real-life investigation. those
who prefer theories over accuracy don't want to spoil those theories with FOIA
requests or other investigations that might actually lead to the uncovering of
evidence. i've witnessed this from the 'inside', and have seen the flurry of
panic to protect certain theories. but that's okay; that's people's lives. and
if you're thinking of becoming a member of the 9/11 truth movement, don't fool
yourself that you're joining a mission to bring truth to light.


***************************************************

He really hit it on the nail with that last statement.
 
I'd be willing to talk about flight 93 on another thread, but back to regularly scheduled programming here...

I have a page about the Pentagon security video, to help understand what it shows, located here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Aude/Pentagon

(sometime I may move it over to my website, but the page was created for discussion - questions come up time and again - I was having on a Wikipedia page about Flight 77.)
 

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