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Pentagon has been manipulating TV coverage

GreyICE

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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/washington/20generals.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

Well we've all known for a while that TV news has been increasingly out of touch with reality, but apparently there's a reason for that. The Pentagon has been deliberately manipulating things, and it seems like they've been turning a blind eye.

Any idea when this will actually break on TV? PBS broke it, but all the other news networks are ignoring it. I wonder for how long. Do they think it will just go away?
 
I think I saw this on CNN a few days ago. I'm sure some of these people getting briefed were dumb enough to believe every word or knowingly parrot these talking points without any deep analysis but these things aren't new. If anyone saw clips from that new Donahue documentary you can see several talking points being brought up word for word again and again by different congressional members from both sides. My response is it's not surprising and probably some is blown out of proportion.
 
The sickening and frightening thing is that we are governed largely by people who think that it is not only alright, but desirable to manipulate public opinion for political purposes by distorting the truth and outright dishonesty. It is completely baffling to me that people seem to be fine with this. If you get a chance please read Judge Napolitano's book A Nation of Sheep. I know that many of you have strong (and I might add completely baseless) negative feeling about Ron Paul. Please, let your opinion of him and his views be based on actual reality.

Read his new book and if you still cling to the idea that he is a whacko, fine, you win. It is called The Revolution: A Manifesto. I would be more than happy to send my copy to anyone once I am through with it. We are supposed to all be skeptical, rational, free thinking people in here and yet I see people with incredibly closed minds because of some half truth or out right lie they have read on the internet or that has been spoon fed to them by the media - people who apparently don't actually care enough about the real truth of things to dig any deeper than is needed to satisfy their prejudices and confirm their preconceptions. If you read this book and it doesn't shake something lose in you - well, I am speechless. I know it takes some effort to go out of your comfort zone and to question your closely held beliefs. You ask that same thing of "woos" all the time. Maybe you could ask the same thing of yourself about things that like to take on faith.
 
Not necessarily fine with it, simply so used to it and so busy trying to get along with the rest of the aspects of their lives they just don't have the time and energy to do that, protest big companies actions, protest the media, etc.

Same as I keep noting about Muslims, etc. Most people everywhere just want to get on with life and enjoy what they can. The number who are rectums about religion, politics, financial systems, etc. are probably less than 10% of any reasonable sized population. If we could lose/control strongly and permanently (feel free to ask, I have ideas on this) that app. 10%, life would be easier/better in many ways.
 
GreyICE said:
Well we've all known for a while that TV news has been increasingly out of touch with reality, but apparently there's a reason for that. The Pentagon has been deliberately manipulating things, and it seems like they've been turning a blind eye.
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It's all a damned conspiracy by the Bush industrial military complex. Only PBS and the NYT has any brains in the world and we should only be allowed to hear what they say.:mad:
 
Elind said:
It's all a damned conspiracy by the Bush industrial military complex. Only PBS and the NYT has any brains in the world and we should only be allowed to hear what they say.:mad:
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Appeal to mockery?
 
billydkid said:
The sickening and frightening thing is that we are governed largely by people who think that it is not only alright, but desirable to manipulate public opinion for political purposes by distorting the truth and outright dishonesty.
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Yeah, I hate political campaign adds too.
 
Of course if you had a huge media apparatus that hated everything you do for no good reason, except that they were instructed by delusional hippies when they were undergraduates who told them they should, you'd probably do everything you could to level the playing field.
 
A government agency and telco companies have stacked press releases. I wouldn't be surprised if it is worse than this story portrays it to be.
 
Information warfare is part of any military operation. I would have been shocked, and mortified if the Pentagon was not spinning the truth a little bit (especially when confronted with the scale, and depth of the jihadist propaganda machine, and the willingness of some elements in the west to take that at face value).

However, how is this different from anything else you see in the news? Everything is spun, by someone, to some end, the critical task is to figure out who's doing the spinning, and why.

As the case is with the Pentagon, I'm less concerned. I believe more or less, all they're capable of is "gray" propaganda (as I've seen it expressed, "white" propaganda is a total truth, as favorable to you, "black" is an outright lie as favorable to you, and "gray" is a more favorable spin on actual events). There's far too many eyes, friendly, hostile, and neutral on the US military to get away with too many blatant falsehoods.
 
Where is Ike when we need him?

Oops. He was a general of sorts, wasn't he?

This stuff comes and it goes. Marks got busted, but enjoyed 3 years of gathering from both troughs. The people that busted him got a raise, but they'll be sliced next year over something else.

As the Republicans say, it's all freedom of speech, right?
 
billydkid said:
The sickening and frightening thing is that we are governed largely by people who think that it is not only alright, but desirable to manipulate public opinion for political purposes by distorting the truth and outright dishonesty. It is completely baffling to me that people seem to be fine with this. If you get a chance please read Judge Napolitano's book A Nation of Sheep. I know that many of you have strong (and I might add completely baseless) negative feeling about Ron Paul. Please, let your opinion of him and his views be based on actual reality.
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You do realize, Billy, that this is all politics; it is not science. There is no truth, there are only positions played out on a vast featureless plane, an open ended chess game with a nearly infinite number of pieces. You win some, you loose some, you die, someone else takes your place and the game keeps going. In this struggle (a tad more genteel than a riot, but with the same aims) there are no permanent winners, not for long, because people change sides for tiny reasons or sometimes no reason at all. There are no absolutes; for example, people are not "completely baseless" in their criticisms of Ron Paul, just as they were not completely correct.

Come on, grow up a little :). Insulting people by telling them their opinions are totally wrong and that they are therefore the "sheep" isn't going to get you where you want to go. Remember what happened to the last idealistic movement that was going to revolutionize the world.
 
HEY EVERYBODY! LOOK OVER HERE! IT'S A SHINY PENNY!
601px-United_States_penny,_obverse,_2002.jpg

OOH, ISN'T THAT A PURDY PENNY!
 
....Yes, your point is?

Oh, you're all SHOCKED by this. Why, exactly are you shocked? Government agencies have been doing it to other media for YEARS, I'm just surprised they got caught.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
....Yes, your point is?

Oh, you're all SHOCKED by this. Why, exactly are you shocked? Government agencies have been doing it to other media for YEARS, I'm just surprised they got caught.
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I suggest you see Garrette's post in the other thread (link a few posts up) on the problem of active duty generals going along with an explicit violation of Joint Doctrine, specifically PSYOPS doctrine, regarding who the target of an information operation is.

While the suits are under no such constraints, by suits I refer to the various suit wearing political appointees and officials who fill in the upper echelon of Pentagon directorships and deputy secretary for this, that and the other, those with stars on their shoulders are on thin ice when so acting.

For another episode of similar problems, see McMaster, Dereliction of Duty. It is widely read in military circles. That the military leadership at the highest echelons chose to overlook the problem that McMaster so clearly spelled out is not just disappointing, but obvious neglect. The four stars in charge from 2000-2006 are the very generation of military officers who swore they wouldn't do what their Viet Nam era precedessors did.

No wonder Major General Batiste retired rather than accept a third star and command of a Corps. He saw what was going on, and I'll guess he could not stomach it any more.

The more interesting parts of the news story, to me, are the relationships between the talking head retired generals and various large companies, some of whom have contracts with the Pentagon, and the failure of the various news companies to consider the conflict of interest angle in hiring them for "expert" commentary.

There's a lot of wrong here.

DR
 
When I read the part about the Guantanamo talking points, it reminded me of an editorial page letter I read in my hometown paper the other day.

"I am an XXXX Alum and currently am working at Guantanamo Bay. Mr. Smith's editorial is very spirited and I can tell he feels very strongly about the GTMO issue. While I do not necessarily disagree with his assertion about Habeas Corpus, his “matter of fact” allegation of torture at Guantanamo is way off base. Some press outlets still showed the slideshows of a temporary holding facility for detainees while the new holding facilities were being built. This camp is no longer used and was only used for a short period of time. The detainees are now held in a very comfortable, state of the art facility. These detainees are being fed three meals daily are given exercise time and are treated with respect and dignity. Even though their guards get food, feces and other bodily fluids thrown at them daily, they still treat the detainees with respect. The specter of Abu Ghraib will be with us for a long time, but lessons were learned there and if anything, the detainees are being treated better because of it. When Mr. Smith alleges torture, he is alleging that our sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, sisters and/or brothers in the U.S. Military and Government service are complicit. People with left-leaning political views consistently say they “support the troops”, but eventually expose their hatred for the military, everyone in it, and everything it stands for."

Wow, I'm so happy that those people being held without their basic rights to a speedy trial and access to their attorneys are getting 3 meals a day. Who the hell cares if you're starving or not if you have to spend your entire life in a jail cell without ever being convicted of anything? His points in this letter sound just like the talking points in the article. I'm sure that's a coincidence.
 
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