Penn and Teller on Circumcision

[Brown]

The new season of "Bull****!" has started. As Penn announced at TAM3, circumcision would be a topic, and it was the subject of the first show.

This was a difficult show to watch, because it was very graphic, and the discussion was very frank. The boys tried to lighten up the mood a little with vulgar humor, but the subject was really too difficult to laugh about. It's really hard to find humor after watching an infant wail in pain.

But the show made some good points, one of which was that the principal reason for the practice today is conformity. Although I don't have kids of my own, some of my friends and relatives have boys, and in every case they chose the procedure for their children for exactly that reason. Not for health reasons. Not for religious reasons. No, they simply didn't want little Johnny to get teased in gym class.

Next week: family values. There's plenty of steaming bovine waste there.

Other possible topics, suggested by the opening titles, include conspiracies such as JFK assassination scenarios.

 

[Brown]

Originally posted by me
Other possible topics, suggested by the opening titles, include conspiracies such as JFK assassination scenarios.

Apparently there will be an episode concerning JFK, according to Teller. Part of the episode will show Teller shooting melons:

I met my instructor, Tony, a silver-haired, tan, 20 year veteran of the police force (where he taught firearms skills). Since retiring from the police, Tony has been teaching marksmanship and gun safety to hobbyists for fifteen years.

He's disgusted and incredulous at the sheer ignorance of anybody who doubts Oswald could have killed Kennedy.

"It was easy shot. Stevie Wonder could have made it," he said and reeled off the exact distances of Oswald's three shots. "I took my gun club out on the desert. We used the exact same make and model of rifle. We set up all the same distances and elevations. Nineteen of the guys hit all three shots, and the other four guys couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a coal shovel. And don't forget, Oswald only hit two out of three."
...
Dressed, I was ready to shoot, in both senses. The crew and I set up two melons on stands. The one representing JFK was wrapped in fiberglass tape; the one representing Jackie was wearing a pink pillbox hat.

Teller says that this demonstration was part of the "last batch" of "Bull****s," so perhaps this means the third season will be the last.

 

[Brown]

One more thing:

In the "Circumcision" episode, Penn goes into cocky mode and suggests that "Bull****" has never been wrong on its facts.

But did not Penn, at TAM3, publicly acknowledge that there was evidence that exposure to second-hand cigarette smoke increases one's risk of cancer?

For that matter, I haven't seen the boys recant from referring to Iron Eyes Cody as a "Native American," as if he were a native American Indian. He isn't. Iron Eyes Cody (known as the "crying Indian" in anti-litter public service advertisements in the 1970s) was an actor, born born Espera DeCorti. From the snopes web site:

Although Iron Eyes was not born an Indian, he lived his adult years as one. He pledged his life to Native American causes, married an Indian woman (Bertha Parker), adopted two Indian boys (Robert and Arthur), and seldom left home without his beaded moccasins, buckskin jacket and braided wig. His was not a short-lived masquerade nor one that was donned and doffed whenever expedient — he maintained his fiction throughout his life and steadfastly denied rumors that he was not an Indian, even after his half-sister surfaced to tell the story in 1996 and to provide pointers to the whereabouts of his birth certificate and other family documents.
...
Even if Iron Eyes was not a true-born Native American, he certainly did a lot of good on behalf of the Native American community, and they generally accepted him as one of them without caring about his true ancestry. In 1995, Hollywood's Native American community honored Iron Eyes for his longstanding contribution to Native American causes. Although he was no Indian, they pointed out, his charitable deeds were more important than his non-Indian heritage.

 

[Darat]

One more thing:

In the "Circumcision" episode, Penn goes into cocky mode and suggests that "Bull****" has never been wrong on its facts.

But did not Penn, at TAM3, publicly acknowledge that there was evidence that exposure to second-hand cigarette smoke increases one's risk of cancer?

Didn't he go further and suggest that it might be a subject they'd like to re-visit?

 

[Lisa Simpson]

I thought he was being sarcastic when he made that comment.

I liked the circumcision episode. It was hard to watch the crying babies, though, and I was a little disappointed that they didn't reveal the choice of the new parents. My guess, they had it done.

 

[MLynn]

I thought he was being sarcastic when he made that comment.

I liked the circumcision episode. It was hard to watch the crying babies, though, and I was a little disappointed that they didn't reveal the choice of the new parents. My guess, they had it done.

Yes, I agree. I thought Penn was being a bit tongue-in-cheek about always getting the facts right.

I'm so glad the guys did this show. My godson was circumcised because of the conformity issue, even though I had a serious discussion about it with his mom, my friend. She blew me off and said it was going to be done! Well, he was her kid and what else could I do?

The solution is to instill confidence in your son so when he's in the locker room, he can in detail explain how much joy and pleasure he and any lady will have compared to them.

 

[Jeff Wagg]

They also got a bit wrong about the witch thing..no witches were ever burned in Salem, MA. 19 were hanged, and one was crushed to death. I told Penn this at TAM2, but he seemed annoyed with me (not that I blame him).

I lived in view of the spot where they were hanged growing up.

HOWEVER, I loved the circumcision show myself, even if it made me mourn anew for my own severed prepuce.

My two boys are NOT circumsized, and I have received a lot of flak for it. My way of looking at it is this: if they want to cut it off later, that's their choice. It's not MY choice.

Besides, Dr. Laura is strongly in favor of circumcision, which is all the reason in the world for me to be against it.

 

[T'ai Chi]

It was hard to watch the crying babies, though,

Sounds like they were going for an argument by emotion?

 

[Lisa Simpson]

Perhaps, some. At first, they talked about reasons for circumcision, then rebutted each argument. Since one of the reasons the pro-circumcision advocates use is that it doesn't hurt the boys (one doc said most baby boys sleep right through the procedure), they had to show the babies who did not sleep through it and were crying hysterically. It was as balanced as you could expect P&T to be.

 

[Brown]

They also got a bit wrong about the witch thing..no witches were ever burned in Salem, MA. 19 were hanged, and one was crushed to death. I told Penn this at TAM2, but he seemed annoyed with me (not that I blame him).

The boys issued a correction shortly after the episode aired, saying just what you said: no witches were ever burned in Salem, but 19 were hanged, and one was crushed with rocks. They also mentioned that there was a lot of other suffering brought about in the name of rooting out those dangerous witches.

Presumably because of production schedules, they issued the correction in the only way they could: in a promotional spot for an upcoming show. As such, the correction may not appear in the DVD or in the reruns of the original episode.

 

[Jeff Wagg]

The boys issued a correction shortly after the episode aired, saying just what you said: no witches were ever burned in Salem, but 19 were hanged, and one was crushed with rocks. They also mentioned that there was a lot of other suffering brought about in the name of rooting out those dangerous witches.

Presumably because of production schedules, they issued the correction in the only way they could: in a promotional spot for an upcoming show. As such, the correction may not appear in the DVD or in the reruns of the original episode.

Well, that's great to hear. I'll bet they got a good deal of mail on that.

Today, folks in Salem are up in arms over a statue of Samantha Stevens (the witch from Bewitched) that is being placed in the city as part of a TV Land promotion.

 

[Phil]

I don't get Showtime, so I haven't seen the circumcision episode, but did they give any stats as to what women prefer in this regard? To me, this would be the only reason to even consider it.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

They talked to several women on the streets who all thought uncircumcised was icky. My own opinion? It's not so much what it looks like, but what you do with it.

 

[Phil]

They talked to several women on the streets who all thought uncircumcised was icky. My own opinion? It's not so much what it looks like, but what you do with it.

When you say "you", do you mean what you, the woman, does with it, or you, the man does with it?

What is the general concensus among women (if there is one)? Do they like the extra loose skin, or the lean, tight version? Aesthetically, functionally, texturally, etc.

 

[rebecca]

When it comes down to it, though, does anyone really, really care? Would a girl actually dump a guy because he's uncircumsized? Seems to me that if a guy gets to the point where a woman is observing his naked penis, he's doing well enough that it won't matter.

If a girl did have a problem with it at that point, she's probably an idiot anyway, so what's the point? Just tell her she won't have to look at it for long.

I guess it goes without saying what my feeling on the matter is.

 

[Phil]

When it comes down to it, though, does anyone really, really care? Would a girl actually dump a guy because he's uncircumsized? Seems to me that if a guy gets to the point where a woman is observing his naked penis, he's doing well enough that it won't matter.

If a girl did have a problem with it at that point, she's probably an idiot anyway, so what's the point? Just tell her she won't have to look at it for long.

I guess it goes without saying what my feeling on the matter is.

But guys don't want you to just look at it. We like you to do other things with it, too. Like take it to the movies, and maybe ice skating or perhaps help it with it taxes. And every once in a while some activities that include touching it.

 

[Jeff Wagg]

I don't get Showtime, so I haven't seen the circumcision episode, but did they give any stats as to what women prefer in this regard? To me, this would be the only reason to even consider it.

One of the websites of the anti-circ folks claims that a non-circumsized penis is more pleasurable for women. They had stats to back it up, so it must be true! (ehem, and what would a scientific study of that nature look like? Try this one. OK, now try this one...)

They claim that the rolled back foreskin is the equivalent of a cock ring.

Could be, but given the lack of nerve endings in that region of the female anatomy, I think the noticeable difference would be minimal.

One thing P&T didn't mention was studies that showed an increase in cervical cancer among partners of men with foreskin intact.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

When you say "you", do you mean what you, the woman, does with it, or you, the man does with it?

You, the man.

 

[rebecca]

But guys don't want you to just look at it. We like you to do other things with it, too. Like take it to the movies, and maybe ice skating or perhaps help it with it taxes. And every once in a while some activities that include touching it.

Right, which is exactly what I was saying. Who cares what it looks like? You looked at it, now it's time to start putting it into dark, enclosed spaces.

I think the people who are concerned over the aesthetics of the un/circumsized cock don't really know what to do with it.

 

[Phil]

Right, which is exactly what I was saying. Who cares what it looks like? You looked at it, now it's time to start putting it into dark, enclosed spaces.

I like the way you think.