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Merged Peace President invades Venezuela,/U.S. Forces Capture Maduro

REP. RICK CRAWFORD: I think it's in the Western Hemisphere's best interest that we show leadership in our neighborhood, so I think that's being welcomed by our allies

Leadership, you reckon? As in setting an example for others to follow. Like, if say China followed your lead, that would be fine?

Also if you could indicate what makes you think your allies are welcoming it that would be super too.
 
I was unaware that Biden used to say America is back thanks to the courage of Trump.

But I can agree with Leavitt that, if Biden had actually said that, Biden would have been lying.


I doubt whether there is such a person as "Ambassador Walz" who made any such statement at the UN Security Council.

But there really is an Ambassador Waltz, and he really did say this:
Strike 1.
 
He's going to bleed the country dry. He's said so.
Do you think there isn't going to be any violence when the US troops arrive to guard the US oil workers?

It hasn't even started yet.


I did some work in Venezuela in the early 2000's, one thing they didn't seem to have any shortage of was guns.
 
Strike 1.
Fun! What happens at strike 3? Do you report W.D. Clinger to the authorities? Does he get deported? Do the Epstein files get released?

How far does this analogy go? Are there balls to call? Because this administration sure could use some. All these interviews where they can't field a single question from a reporter without wharrgarbling distractions isn't the strongman look you seem to think it is. It makes it pretty clear no one had any serious plan for this and they're still in panic mode, like every other chaos monkey gambit this administration has pulled. It'll be "we meant to do that" right up until it was Biden's fault the whole time.
 
Venezuela still has a functional government with a near direct successor to the rule of Maduro. China, Iran and Russia were all front and center at the party where the new leader basically declared that the US intervention is not welcome at all.

The UN meeting didn't go well for the US either as everyone else was quite disgusted with trimps dumbass stunt. The EU has met about taking up a decision on this too.

Meanwhile Maduro is using trimps own sovereign national leader impunity rule as his defense strategy and the DOJ kinda forgot to put the drug cartel that really doesn't exist into the charges.
This Reich really doesn't like it when they are forced to put thier claims in legal papers writing.

Unless Maduro "accidentally" dies in his cell accompanied by several minutes of missing video at a key moment or something it really looks like this is all a major problem for the orange Reich.

Meanwhile every sovereign nation with a shore on the Gulf of Mexico has taken a hard stance and is preparing for more dementia induced military decisions.

Americans, just wtf were you thinking with when you voted this moron leader? He ruined your lifestyles too. Unless you happen to be a billionaire donor.
 
Americans, just wtf were you thinking with when you voted this moron leader? He ruined your lifestyles too. Unless you happen to be a billionaire donor.
*Shrugs electorally*

Half the country is entirely captured by billionaire-driven media. They never hear a word about Stinky that isn't glowing praise for his bold leadership and impeccable ethics. This crap jt512 is spewing? There is a deep rabbit hole waiting to catch the gullible where that's all there is.

The other half are led by feckless wimps who talk themselves out of putting up any opposition for fear they may be blamed for it and then fail to understand why that doesn't motivate people to support them.
 
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Scarborough on what Trump told him during a phone call yesterday: "Joe, the the difference between Iraq and this is that Bush didn't keep the oil. We're going to keep the oil. To underline his point, Trump said his comments were no long on background."

No. The difference between Iraq and this is that when Bush captured Saddam he also dismantled Saddam's whole power structure - his army and security services. (And created a power vacuum which let to terrible violence. Also that's where ISIS got its military capability from: unemployed Iraqi officers.)

Trump has done a deal with the existing Venezuelan power structure instead of defeating it. How much control he has over that remains to be seen.
 
Maduro is a bad guy sure, that doesn't make this good and Trump being Noam Chomsky's stereotype of American Elites is just gross. This likely illegal on number of levels, I'll leave that to lawyers though.
 
A Superpower should act like a Superpower apparently.

MILLER: The US is using its military to secure our interests unapologetically in our hemisphere. We're a superpower and under President Trump we are going to conduct ourselves as a superpower. It's absurd that we would allow a nation in our backyard to become the supplier of resources to our adversaries but not to us.

TAPPER: Sovereign countries shouldn't be able to do what they want to do?

MILLER: *keeps yelling*

The thing that used to make the United States a super-power was not our military force, but our restraint. That eroded after Vietnam, and we tried to stay on the high road through 2001. We didn't defeat communism with nuclear weapons and Delta Force, we crushed it with Levi's, McDonalds, and KFC. The world wasn't afraid of us, they respected us (for the most part) because we were cool. Now were just a-holes.
 
I've been quietly researching material for a book about the 7th Infantry Division (Light) covering the Lightfighter era of 1983 through 1993. The 7thID(L) was the principle force behind Operation: Just Cause (OJC) in 1989, although pop culture tells you it was all Delta, SEALs, and Rangers. They conducted operations in Panama from 1988, through 1989's Operation Nimrod, OJC, and then operations Restore Liberty and Condor in 1990. The division redeployed to Fort Ord, CA in February 1990.

Here's the thing, there's a right and wrong was to do things. Noriega was problem. Yes, he was our problem, and someone we had propped up because we were lazy in how we dealt with Central American leadership, i.e. "Is he pro-communist? No? Alright, he's in." Anyway, the game had always when one of our dictators crossed the line they'd be "forced out in a coup", and would "flee to a non-extradition country" (of our choice) where they'd live out their lives playing golf or whatever. But Noriega actually thought he was in charge, and thus became a problem we had to fix.

In 1988, the US Marshall Service devised an operation to grab Noriega just like we saw with Maduro. The Bush NSC's lawyers killed the plan because kidnapping a foreign leader will set a dangerous precedent for the future. The smarter and legal move was to invade Panama, and we knew eventually Noriega would give us an excuse to do this. And he did. You have to hand it to the Panamanians, during Operation NIMROD we spent all year trying to antagonize them to provoke an armed response (we'd block their main highway to conduct a P.T. run, which is like blocking the New Jersey turnpike during rush hour, conduct training exercises with no advanced warning, etc.), and to the PDF's credit they never took the bait. But eventually American service members were killed and it was game-on.

But IMO the biggest oversite of military and political historians is that OJC was quickly forgotten, overshadowed by Desert Storm, and this gap in historical knowledge has directly led to the missteps of Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom (OEF & OIF). We spent a lot of time writing libraries about the Vietnam War and the long list of reasons it ended the way it did, but it is just as important to understand OJC and why we won it. Panama remains the United States sole total military and political victory. Desert Storm will always have an Asterix by it as it left Saddam in power, and a No-Fly-Zone which gave a rising Al Qaeda a rallying cry, and UNSCOM which all directly put us in our current internal and international political nightmare.
We were lucky in Panama. Yes, we went in with a 3 to 1 advantage over the PDF, but Noriega was not loved by his soldiers, and most of the time we could use bullhorns to talk them into surrendering without a fight (none of them wanted to die for Noriega at Christmas). Yet had the PDF, and the civilian Dignity Battalions (Dig-Bats) decided to fight us, and drag us into the jungles OJC becomes a multi-year operation. OJC worked because, unlike Iraq where we removed the Baath Party, we stood up the duly elected government, and put the PDF back to work minus a few Noriega loyalists. This allowed US forces to focus on hunting down weapons caches, Noriega cronies, Cuban operatives, and conducting anti-drug missions along the Colombian border. And yes, we had two military bases in Panama, and the Canal Zone was under US control, so we also had that going for us.

Point is that we did our homework before we got Noriega. Panama is a lone bright spot in Central America. They still like us, and they use the dollar as their currency. The problems with Venezuela are many. Maduro is a scumbag, nobody is arguing he shouldn't end up on the end of a rope, but the US has never tried to make a case against him beyond terse speeches at the UN and DoS every once in a while, and that has caught us flat-footed now because our current President's administration has zero credibility at any level with anyone with more than a fourth-grade education. At least with the Cuban Missile Crisis, Grenada, and Diablo Canyon when we bombed Libya there were immediate Pentagon briefings with various pieces of evidence, usually aerial reconnaissance photos to justify our actions. We haven't got anything of substance from this White House. Worse still is that nobody in this administration understands, let alone cares about the long-term consequences of this raid.

I have to hope we've spun up a Venezuelan insurgency to take control, or are working with an established rebel group to shape the next government in our image. And yes that's jingoism, but at this point it's about putting out the fire instead of lighting our crotch on fire like we did in Iraq, because Iraq is far away, Venezuela is in our backyard. If we screw the next part up we will have bigger fish to fry in the future, and this current White House has gutted just about every department that can deal with it. This is not some kind of One & Done operation. There are serious problems in Venezuela, and they're about to become our problems under a US government run by a mix of idiots, dolt, party-wonks, crooks, and cowards.

Or as Hunter S. Thompson called it, The New Dumb.
 
That's silly*, what made the US a superpower was our economy and military. What made the US unusual for a superpower was restraint. Trump is now giving the world the superpower the left has always said the US was. A super-power like every other.

Side note, I don't even really think he did this for the oil. I think it's just because it makes him feel like a big man, the oil is like all the other rationales we've been hearing, just pretext. Trump is just so stupid he thinks that it's a good pretext.

Post 612 not 613.
 
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Leadership, you reckon? As in setting an example for others to follow. Like, if say China followed your lead, that would be fine?

Also if you could indicate what makes you think your allies are welcoming it that would be super too.
Mmm, I think NATO allies are over the moon right now, what with being told nobody is mighty enough to defend Greenland, so it'll belong to the USA, "one way or another."
 
Venezuela still has a functional government with a near direct successor to the rule of Maduro. China, Iran and Russia were all front and center at the party where the new leader basically declared that the US intervention is not welcome at all.

<snip>

Meanwhile every sovereign nation with a shore on the Gulf of Mexico has taken a hard stance and is preparing for more dementia induced military decisions.

Americans, just wtf were you thinking with when you voted this moron leader? He ruined your lifestyles too. Unless you happen to be a billionaire donor.
Gulf of where?
 
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Trump has done a deal with the existing Venezuelan power structure instead of defeating it. How much control he has over that remains to be seen.
It's already seen. The new leader (not the hopeful opposition leader, poor sweetheart) was dancing along in a pro-Maduro celebration giving rude signs to the camera for Trump to see (Trump hates leaders dancing in public, that's why the ballroom will be for something else, maybe cutting off balls).
 
The opposition leader actually got a peace prize, a real one not from a happy meal, and trimp will have nothing to do with her for it.

The gall of her for stealing that from him! Did she start and stop 14 wars the last year?
 
I've been quietly researching material for a book about the 7th Infantry Division (Light) covering the Lightfighter era of 1983 through 1993. The 7thID(L) was the principle force behind Operation: Just Cause (OJC) in 1989, although pop culture tells you it was all Delta, SEALs, and Rangers. They conducted operations in Panama from 1988, through 1989's Operation Nimrod, OJC, and then operations Restore Liberty and Condor in 1990. The division redeployed to Fort Ord, CA in February 1990.

Here's the thing, there's a right and wrong was to do things. Noriega was problem. Yes, he was our problem, and someone we had propped up because we were lazy in how we dealt with Central American leadership, i.e. "Is he pro-communist? No? Alright, he's in." Anyway, the game had always when one of our dictators crossed the line they'd be "forced out in a coup", and would "flee to a non-extradition country" (of our choice) where they'd live out their lives playing golf or whatever. But Noriega actually thought he was in charge, and thus became a problem we had to fix.

In 1988, the US Marshall Service devised an operation to grab Noriega just like we saw with Maduro. The Bush NSC's lawyers killed the plan because kidnapping a foreign leader will set a dangerous precedent for the future. The smarter and legal move was to invade Panama, and we knew eventually Noriega would give us an excuse to do this. And he did. You have to hand it to the Panamanians, during Operation NIMROD we spent all year trying to antagonize them to provoke an armed response (we'd block their main highway to conduct a P.T. run, which is like blocking the New Jersey turnpike during rush hour, conduct training exercises with no advanced warning, etc.), and to the PDF's credit they never took the bait. But eventually American service members were killed and it was game-on.

But IMO the biggest oversite of military and political historians is that OJC was quickly forgotten, overshadowed by Desert Storm, and this gap in historical knowledge has directly led to the missteps of Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom (OEF & OIF). We spent a lot of time writing libraries about the Vietnam War and the long list of reasons it ended the way it did, but it is just as important to understand OJC and why we won it. Panama remains the United States sole total military and political victory. Desert Storm will always have an Asterix by it as it left Saddam in power, and a No-Fly-Zone which gave a rising Al Qaeda a rallying cry, and UNSCOM which all directly put us in our current internal and international political nightmare.
We were lucky in Panama. Yes, we went in with a 3 to 1 advantage over the PDF, but Noriega was not loved by his soldiers, and most of the time we could use bullhorns to talk them into surrendering without a fight (none of them wanted to die for Noriega at Christmas). Yet had the PDF, and the civilian Dignity Battalions (Dig-Bats) decided to fight us, and drag us into the jungles OJC becomes a multi-year operation. OJC worked because, unlike Iraq where we removed the Baath Party, we stood up the duly elected government, and put the PDF back to work minus a few Noriega loyalists. This allowed US forces to focus on hunting down weapons caches, Noriega cronies, Cuban operatives, and conducting anti-drug missions along the Colombian border. And yes, we had two military bases in Panama, and the Canal Zone was under US control, so we also had that going for us.

Point is that we did our homework before we got Noriega. Panama is a lone bright spot in Central America. They still like us, and they use the dollar as their currency. The problems with Venezuela are many. Maduro is a scumbag, nobody is arguing he shouldn't end up on the end of a rope, but the US has never tried to make a case against him beyond terse speeches at the UN and DoS every once in a while, and that has caught us flat-footed now because our current President's administration has zero credibility at any level with anyone with more than a fourth-grade education. At least with the Cuban Missile Crisis, Grenada, and Diablo Canyon when we bombed Libya there were immediate Pentagon briefings with various pieces of evidence, usually aerial reconnaissance photos to justify our actions. We haven't got anything of substance from this White House. Worse still is that nobody in this administration understands, let alone cares about the long-term consequences of this raid.

I have to hope we've spun up a Venezuelan insurgency to take control, or are working with an established rebel group to shape the next government in our image. And yes that's jingoism, but at this point it's about putting out the fire instead of lighting our crotch on fire like we did in Iraq, because Iraq is far away, Venezuela is in our backyard. If we screw the next part up we will have bigger fish to fry in the future, and this current White House has gutted just about every department that can deal with it. This is not some kind of One & Done operation. There are serious problems in Venezuela, and they're about to become our problems under a US government run by a mix of idiots, dolt, party-wonks, crooks, and cowards.

Or as Hunter S. Thompson called it, The New Dumb.
Almost as if they had read the British Empire play book. You intimidate. you bribe, but mainly you make deals with the powers that be. You may insist on things they don't want (officially) like the US committing to end slavery as part of the peace treaty from the 1812 war, but it is local power structures that enforce the changes (e.g. no more burning widows).
 
Gutfeld: When he says we are taking the oil, we say wow… but it's honest. And is it good for America? Well, yeah. It was our oil.

Nope, no it wasn't. When the Venezuelan oil fields were nationalised, the US owners closed down their businesses there and shut down all operations. Nothing was "stolen", it was never theirs to start with.
 
Nope, no it wasn't. When the Venezuelan oil fields were nationalised, the US owners closed down their businesses there and shut down all operations. Nothing was "stolen", it was never theirs to start with.
Specifically, the nationalization plan required then-resident foreign oil companies to be taxed at a certain exorbitant rate, something like 40%. Only Chevron stayed. The rest pulled out voluntarily. Nobody was categorically forced out.
 
50 million barrels of oil from Venezuela.
Suddenly it’s not going to the oil companies it's going to Donald.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonald Trump
I am pleased to announce that the Interim Authorities in Venezuela will be turning over between 30 and 50 MILLION Barrels of High Quality, Sanctioned Oil, to the United States of America. This Oil will be sold at its Market Price, and that money will be controlled by me, as President of the United States of America, to ensure it is used to benefit the people of Venezuela and the United States! I have asked Energy Secretary Chris Wright to execute this plan, immediately. It will be taken by storage ships, and brought directly to unloading docks in the United States. Thank you for your attention to this matter!

DONALD J. TRUMP

PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
 
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50 million barrels of oil from Venezuela.
Suddenly it’s not going to the oil companies it's going to Donald.
Per Google AI, this is enough to power the world for 12 hours.

ETA: Since Trump always exaggerates, 30 million is more likely than 50 million. Enough to power the U.S. for 1.5 days in 2023. So probably less in 2025. It's not nothing, but the messaging on this issue is so incoherent I'm wondering if Trump's inner circle even know what he means. Have we filed a RICO suit against Maduro? Is he the owner of the oil? Is it a gift from the state of Venezuela?

In any event they are fast losing their cover, and while I know Trump personally doesn't care, I think this could become a branding issue for the GOP.
 
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Donald is appointing Stephen Miller as Gauleiter for Venezuela

"I serve the President, I implement his agenda, and I do whatever he asks me to do"
 
Donald is appointing Stephen Miller as Gauleiter for Venezuela

"I serve the President, I implement his agenda, and I do whatever he asks me to do"
Wrong.

G9wPJRCasAkPivR
 
Specifically, the nationalization plan required then-resident foreign oil companies to be taxed at a certain exorbitant rate, something like 40%. Only Chevron stayed. The rest pulled out voluntarily. Nobody was categorically forced out.
USA doesn't like tariffs! :ROFLMAO:
 

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