progressquest
Critical Thinker
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- Sep 2, 2006
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- 405
Ok, it seems a derail has started in a thread devoted to mac products. Consider this my good deed of 2007. Let's continue the debate here, not there. 
PC vs MAC
- Thread starter progressquest
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TobiasTheViking
Resident Viking Autist
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- Jun 25, 2005
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what debate?
I fail to see the need to debate anything in this regard.
And also, emacs is best.
I fail to see the need to debate anything in this regard.
And also, emacs is best.
Rat
Not bored. Never bored.,
I don't like Macs at all. No particular reason I could put my finger on, but that's how it is. I had no particular notion of what to expect when I first used one, and none of the things I didn't like about them were just because it was different to what I was used to. Neither are any of them (at least that spring to mind) qualitative differences that make one platform 'better' than the other; just that I like one more than the other.
What I do hate, though, is supporting Mac users. If you want to use a system that 'just works', then don't complain when it doesn't. And make no mistake, computer problems are overwhelmingly user problems, and they are just as common on Macs as on PCs.
What I do hate, though, is supporting Mac users. If you want to use a system that 'just works', then don't complain when it doesn't. And make no mistake, computer problems are overwhelmingly user problems, and they are just as common on Macs as on PCs.
phyz
Muse
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2004
- Messages
- 965
Here's what I don't get. What is it about PC users that compels them to proclaim their hate of all things Mac whenever the slightest glimmer of an opportunity arises?
If I don't like the kind of shoes you're wearing, I won't buy a pair for myself. But I won't blog abouit how awful your shoes are and why no one should ever buy them. And I surely won't berate you for your selection.
PC folks. Be happy. You rule the world! You've got the marketshare! Celebrate and be happy with your earthly domination.
Some of us don't want to be like you. Please try to be OK with that. We're not going to take away your PCs. You are free to toil away on Windows/Vista to your heart's content.
We're simply not going to join you in that endeavor. We've got our own platform and we're happy with it. Very happy. Don't hate us because we're happy. Doing so leads us to believe that you're not happy. Actually, that you're not happy and can't stand the thought that we are happy. And that rather than joining us in our happiness, you're compelled to force your unhappiness on us.
Surely this impression is in error. But that's how it plays to us. OK, maybe that's just how it plays to me. Nevertheless...
Like I said: I just don't get it.
If I don't like the kind of shoes you're wearing, I won't buy a pair for myself. But I won't blog abouit how awful your shoes are and why no one should ever buy them. And I surely won't berate you for your selection.
PC folks. Be happy. You rule the world! You've got the marketshare! Celebrate and be happy with your earthly domination.
Some of us don't want to be like you. Please try to be OK with that. We're not going to take away your PCs. You are free to toil away on Windows/Vista to your heart's content.
We're simply not going to join you in that endeavor. We've got our own platform and we're happy with it. Very happy. Don't hate us because we're happy. Doing so leads us to believe that you're not happy. Actually, that you're not happy and can't stand the thought that we are happy. And that rather than joining us in our happiness, you're compelled to force your unhappiness on us.
Surely this impression is in error. But that's how it plays to us. OK, maybe that's just how it plays to me. Nevertheless...
Like I said: I just don't get it.
Wowbagger
The Infinitely Prolonged
Nowadays Macs and PCs are almost just as good as each other almost every respect. Your choice of computing platform amounts to personal choice. To "hate" one platform, and think the other vastly superior is "racist". It's like saying "Chocolate is the best ice-cream flavor, therefore everyone must stop eating vanilla!", or something.
I choose Windows, because I am rich enough to afford the expensive upgrades, and patient enough to wait for them.
I choose Windows, because I am rich enough to afford the expensive upgrades, and patient enough to wait for them.
Quick question - what about owners of both Mac and Windows systems? Do we have to only post positive comments regarding Windows form my Windows PC and positive comments regarding Mac OSX from my Mac PC and vice-a-versa for negative ones?
(I do also have the option of booting the Windows PC into a Linux distribution so what about then - only positive comments about Linux...)
(I do also have the option of booting the Windows PC into a Linux distribution so what about then - only positive comments about Linux...)
I wouldn't call them prohibitive, but price is definitely an issue.
That's a very important point. Instead of waiting for the Next Big Upgrade, PC users can gradually, when they need it, get exactly the setup they need to solve their problems.
We all know how fast technology moves. Just a few years ago, very few were SMS'ing, now we are facing an evolutionary change: Our thumbs are becoming our pointing finger, because we use those to press the keys on our cell phones with. Can we wait years for each technology upgrade? No.
It's true!
It's not a hatred of all things Mac. It's a dislike of the smugness of some Mac users.
Case in point.
Remember the Apple ad, which portrayed the PC as a sort of 1984-monolithic Big Brother world? Break free with a Mac? That's irony, my friend.
I think you'll find it an impossible task to argue that chocolate is anything but the best, on this forum...
I choose Windows, because I am rich enough to afford the expensive upgrades, and patient enough to wait for them.
Yet, you don't have to wait as long as you have to wait for Mac Upgrades.
Numbers - and by that it I mean that because there are so many more Windows PC users out there even if a very small minority are quite vocal about their dislike for Mac OSX PCs it will be a lot and seem very noisy.
I'll also trade you anecdotes, when I was looking to buy my Mac I started to read Mac magazines, something I'd not done for years and I was astonished at the vitriol splashed against both Intel and Windows/Microsoft (yes this was before the conversion of the faithful to Intel powered Macs...
) , and I don't just mean in the letters pages but in the editorials, general columns and so on. There is just nothing like that in the magazines aimed at (on the whole) Window PC owners and users.Wudang
BOFH
For me, it's history of friends. I used to have massive arguments with a friend who was a major mac bigot. What he didn't get was 2 things:
1 - the things that are important to him aren't important to me. I don't need a computer I can "relate to" any more than I need a kitchen knife I can relate to.
2 - and this he finally got when he had to do development work on a Unix system. GUIs are dressing on top of the function. A GUI designer may not have anticipated all my needs and certanly won't have known all the ways I'll use his toy. With a command line I can script common tasks. Sure "ps -eaf | grep -i java" may not be intuitive but I don't give a rats droppings. At that time the Mac had no command line. He refused to accept it needed one. Then he found that instead of everytime he wanted to re-build his app, instead of 8 mouse-clicks, he opened a shell and typed something like "build -o -r". The analogy he borrowed from me was that the (then) Mac GUI was like the ultimate kitchen all-slicing, blending, kneading food processor. But the kitchen didn't have a single knife. Sure you can detach this bit and attach that bit but in my kitchen I prefer to have a few sharp knives close to hand. That's my mindset and I don't mind sharpening those knives by hand (quite relaxing actually).
A number of people I respect say very good things about OS X which meet my interests (yes, it's got a nice knife AND it's got ....).
BTW - I work on z/OS, unix and windows at work, use XP at work, and at home I run XP and 2 linuxes so I'm hardly a bigot. But when people give me the "you just don't get it" argument, it just leaves me cold. And for FSM's sake why the flying (rule 8) do people get upset when someone says "I don't like your computer"? I didn't get upset when people were astonished that I prefered OS/2 for my home PC. It was a tool that let me do stuff. Too many Mac users seem to have too much emotion invested in their kit. Windows fans who have too much emotion invested are .....well, bizarre.
By heck, I've rambled a bit.
1 - the things that are important to him aren't important to me. I don't need a computer I can "relate to" any more than I need a kitchen knife I can relate to.
2 - and this he finally got when he had to do development work on a Unix system. GUIs are dressing on top of the function. A GUI designer may not have anticipated all my needs and certanly won't have known all the ways I'll use his toy. With a command line I can script common tasks. Sure "ps -eaf | grep -i java" may not be intuitive but I don't give a rats droppings. At that time the Mac had no command line. He refused to accept it needed one. Then he found that instead of everytime he wanted to re-build his app, instead of 8 mouse-clicks, he opened a shell and typed something like "build -o -r". The analogy he borrowed from me was that the (then) Mac GUI was like the ultimate kitchen all-slicing, blending, kneading food processor. But the kitchen didn't have a single knife. Sure you can detach this bit and attach that bit but in my kitchen I prefer to have a few sharp knives close to hand. That's my mindset and I don't mind sharpening those knives by hand (quite relaxing actually).
A number of people I respect say very good things about OS X which meet my interests (yes, it's got a nice knife AND it's got ....).
BTW - I work on z/OS, unix and windows at work, use XP at work, and at home I run XP and 2 linuxes so I'm hardly a bigot. But when people give me the "you just don't get it" argument, it just leaves me cold. And for FSM's sake why the flying (rule 8) do people get upset when someone says "I don't like your computer"? I didn't get upset when people were astonished that I prefered OS/2 for my home PC. It was a tool that let me do stuff. Too many Mac users seem to have too much emotion invested in their kit. Windows fans who have too much emotion invested are .....well, bizarre.
By heck, I've rambled a bit.
El Greco
Summer worshipper
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2003
- Messages
- 17,604
For the same reason they get upset when someone says "I don't like your clothes" ?
Um... I'd better not go there again
Another example that being the "best" (in a technical sense) doesn't ensure the survival in the consumer market.
Wudang
BOFH
Was it "the best"? The device driver support was FUBARed. It took them ages to get past or even acknowledge the single message queue issue. There's no such thing IMNVHO, there's only fit for purpose. Lifestyle choices are for people without lives.
At the time, I felt that OS/2 Warp was the most reliable and usable platform available. But considering the competition in 1994, that's not saying much.
Ian Osborne
JREF Kid
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2001
- Messages
- 8,957
Like the Mac user who turned the thread on the WWDC 07 into a Mac Vs PC flame war? No, sorry, that was you...
Yet, you don't have to wait as long as you have to wait for Mac Upgrades.
• Releases since 2001...
Windows XP: October 2001
Windows Vista: January 2007
Mac OS X 10.0: March 2001
Mac OS X 10.1: September 2001 (free upgrade for 10.0 users)
Mac OS X 10.2: August 2002
Mac OS X 10.3: October 2003
Mac OS X 10.4: April 2005
Mac OS X 10.5: Spring 2007
Whilst I don't think it was perfect I think at the time especially with the arrival of OS/2 Warp it could be fairly accurately described as the "best" mainstream desktop OS for IBM compatible PCs.
Wudang
BOFH
While a big fan myself I knew lots of people who had horrible experiences with OS/2 (inc Warp) and especially Wordperfect users. There are lots of reasons you can claim it was better (eg the IP stack, association wizard, WPS, SOM etc) but if you can't get a driver for it you're stuffed.
I Think Zygar sums it up right - given the time we are talking about it's like saying "he was the nicest one of the Kray Twins".
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
I grew up on and used Macs all the way through college and into my first job before work and application restraints forced me to move to Windows. I honestly can't say that one is better than the other, overall.
The next time I get ready to do a major upgrade, I will probably get a Mac and put a dual boot with Windows on it so that I can work in either.
The next time I get ready to do a major upgrade, I will probably get a Mac and put a dual boot with Windows on it so that I can work in either.