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Parents are Delusional?

Hamsterfan said:
I was just reading this on the net - what do you think?

http://healthland.time.com/2011/03/04/why-having-kids-is-foolish/?xid=yahoo-feat

As a new parent myself, I admit I am a bit biased in favor of having kids. I do acknowledge the validity of their stand that kids are expensive - in time and money. But, perhaps being deluded, I do think experience worth it, at least so far.
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I call BS on that article. Sorry, but I do.

IMHO, parents who know how to be parents from day one, it shouldn't be all that terrible, as that article seems to make you want to think it should be.

I have a kid on the way.....due in about 6 weeks from now. As a teacher, I really enjoy my job. I just love kids. They're great.
 
We have seven kids, so we should be clinically depressed, homicidal angry and our marriage should be one smoking ruin.

We've spent a fortune on them, and six of the seven have reached adulthood with good jobs and loving partners (one's still only 15).

Yeah, a sample of one.

FWIW, I found the study design to be unconvincing. I call BS as well.
 
That article reads like total crud. This jumped out at me:

They were also significantly more likely to believe that spending time with kids is more rewarding than other activities, even though researchers have found that when you measure how rewarding parents found any given day spent with their children, they rated that day worse than they had expected to. (More on Time.com: What's the Deal with 'Baby Yoga'?)
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This is a weak argument on two points. Firstly, there's a leap of logic here. Assuming the referenced research is true, just because a parent finds spending time with a child less rewarding than they anticipated doesn't mean it's not actually rewarding, or that it's less rewarding than other activities. The writer is drawing an unjustified conclusion. I'd propose that most people probably over estimate the level of enjoyment they're going to get from an activity they perceive as rewarding.

If this wasn't bad enough, the "link" that you presume leads to a Time article that explores this idea even more, actually leads to a totally meaningless article about some weird extreme child abuse yoga they do in Russia, and that has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand.

also...

In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, we thought nothing of requiring kids to get jobs even before they hit puberty. Few thought of it as abuse. Reformers helped change the system — and rightly so — so that children could be educated. But this created a conundrum. As Eibach and Mock write, “As children's economic value plummeted, their perceived emotional value rose, creating a new cultural model of childhood that [one researcher] aptly dubbed ‘the economically worthless but emotionally priceless child.'”
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So much wrong in here I don't know where to begin. The notion that "childhood" as a special stage of life is a modern invention is such a pervasive and yet such a false myth it's just unbelievable.
 
lionking said:
We have seven kids, so we should be clinically depressed, homicidal angry and our marriage should be one smoking ruin.

We've spent a fortune on them, and six of the seven have reached adulthood with good jobs and loving partners (one's still only 15).

Yeah, a sample of one.

FWIW, I found the study design to be unconvincing. I call BS as well.
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Four kids in my family. Of all my friends, we have the largest family. My parents are also one of the very few couples amongst all my friends that are still together.

I wonder if the problem is the opposite of what they're claiming. Seems to me that over the last few years the perceived value of children has taken a massive hit, particularly since the rise of the feminist movement. Many, if not most parents I know put their careers before their kids. Of course if you actually suggested that to them they'd be horrified, but watch them. Their kids spend more time being looked after by professional caregivers than by their own parents.

Kind of like those people who get a dog because they figure they'll get more exercise while walking the pet, then end up paying a stranger to walk their dog because they're "too busy", and then complain because they're still fat and their pet doesn't like them.
 
3 sista here. My parents were less prone to be angry at each other than parents with less kids from my friends, at least from a superficial observation.

I wonder if there is not a contrary correlation, or at least a confusing factor : parents which *think* after the first 1 or 2 kids that they can get well with their partner are more likely to get a 3rd or 4th (or....hu....7th ;) Lionking ). It could very well be that with more kids you get more depressed by biulls and make yourself worry on how you to educate the next one, but I don#t think it is comparable, because there is more burden.

What could be comparable, is how depressed and well "delusional" (since they put it that way) are parents with the same number of kids before one group get more whereas the other stay at the same number.

In other word, study parents which all have 1 kid, find out how much depressed, well, or delusional they are, then study the same group after it got another kid, compare to the controlk group which got still only 1 kid. Did it get worse etc...
 
According to the article, of course you people would deny it. :D
 
Don't get me wrong, I like kids.

But you have to cook 'em juuuuust right.
 
I was liking the article up until this line:

Does this mean you shouldn't have kids? Yes — but you won't.
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This, and all the conclusions that follow, is BS. The author of the article missed the point of the research.


Parents often do idealize their experience as parents, often ignoring the reality of their real situation. However, that doesn't mean, in any way, that you "shouldn't have kids", or any other of the author's statements at the end of the article. The author's conclusions are not supported by the evidence presented.
 
Aepervius said:
I am not a parent, and don't plan on it. I am an evolutionary dead end.
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Me too. :D I've never had the desire to have children, can't bear them, and this puts me in a minority of women, most of whom coo like lobotomised doves when a new-born enters the room. Pass the sick bag, pur-lease.

I think it's as easy for the parents here to shout "foul!" as it is for the childless to cry "told you so" :p and the charge of cognitive dissonance can be levelled at both groups. We both do it, valuing the things that our chosen lifestyles offer us over those which we don't have (see the recent threads in Forum Community for parents and non-parents alike as an example).

Yes, new parents may over-state the joys of babyhood as a psychological defence against the pain of chronic sleeplessness. In the same way, the person without children may value their freedom to counteract the worst moments of solitude.

Therefore it's patently absurd to try and reduce the benefits of having children, or not having them, down to a cost-benefit analysis. Parenthood must have something going for it, because there's 6 billion of us and counting. Likewise, female emancipation means I can live a childless, financially independent life that my great grandmothers could never have even dreamed of.
 
I love babies, new borns are awesome, but one shall never pass through my vagina.

Ick.
 
3 kids, single parent. Yes it's a lot of work, worry and stress and financial strain. So? I'm grateful for them.
 
I think that no matter what the "lifestyle choice" involved, I suspect you could find the same sorts of delusions. Career focused individuals would tell themselves that their material success has made them happy. Married people would insist that their spouses mean the world to them. People with no particular commitments would tell themselves that freedom is everything.

No matter what we do, if it's the focus of our lives, we'll say that it is incredibly important and it brings us much happiness, whether or not that is objectively true.
 
Meadmaker said:
No matter what we do, if it's the focus of our lives, we'll say that it is incredibly important and it brings us much happiness, whether or not that is objectively true.
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I had a long response written but it crashed, so let me sum up:

By most accounts, changing the smelliest, foulest dirty diaper and the accompanying mess would not be considered a pleasant activity. Man, that thing was stinky. And I wouldn't say doing it was unpleasant, but it certainly did not affect my happiness. In fact, it made me laugh at how stinky it was, and I still chuckle just thinking about it today.

The question is not whether kids have effects that would not be associated with happiness (lack of sleep, lack of sex life, lack of money, lack of personal time, etc), but whether people are actually happy or not.

I guess you look at the trade-offs. On the negative side, I have those things listed above, which make life hard. On the positive side...I have my kids, which make my life great.

It's no comparison. Not even close.
 
Nihilianth said:
I call BS on that article. Sorry, but I do.

IMHO, parents who know how to be parents from day one, it shouldn't be all that terrible, as that article seems to make you want to think it should be.

I have a kid on the way.....due in about 6 weeks from now. As a teacher, I really enjoy my job. I just love kids. They're great.
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LMAO!


You have absolutely no clue! Being a teacher is nothing like having your own, I can guarantee you that.
 
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