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PARADOX EXPERIMENTS?

sanduleak

New Blood
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
3
Hello everybody, great site for share ideas and thoughts

Although im a convert skeptic in free energy since some time ago , yet there are some results that confuse me and i want to hear your opinions about this

avramenko experiment
hooper-monstein experiment
chernetsky experiment
ampere force, newtonian electrodynamics,exploding wires
marinov motor


Thanks!
 
With just quick titles, it's hard to be sure what experiments you're talking about. Care to link any sources of information that you feel describe them particularly well? Without information as to the nature of the claims, it's difficult to a fair assesment.
 
sanduleak said:
Hello everybody, great site for share ideas and thoughts

Although im a convert skeptic in free energy since some time ago , yet there are some results that confuse me and i want to hear your opinions about this

avramenko experiment
hooper-monstein experiment
chernetsky experiment
ampere force, newtonian electrodynamics,exploding wires
marinov motor


Thanks!

I did a bare minimum of searching... all of these phrases pull up Zero Point Energy, and Cold Fusion types of "alternative energy" websites.

More of the 'free lunch'/'pull-energy-out-of-your-a$$' same ol' same ol'.

Just an FYI for you, sanduleak... this stuff does qualify for the JREF million dollar prize... on the off chance that any of these guys can actually get one of these gizmos pumping out more juice than it takes in.

(Note:The 'Pull-energy-out-of-your-a$$ers' should not be confused with 'Push-energy-out-of-your-a$$ers'... methane is indeed a valid form of "alternative energy".
 
more info

Basically , in the Avramenko's exp a capacitor is charged though a 1 wire antenna made of diodes. The explanation i have read of this is that we are observing the "displacement current". However until i know this current is so weak to produce an observable effect
 
Re: more info

sanduleak said:
Basically , in the Avramenko's exp a capacitor is charged though a 1 wire antenna made of diodes. The explanation i have read of this is that we are observing the "displacement current". However until i know this current is so weak to produce an observable effect

I am a cigar chomping, grind the little guy under my boot, deflower little match girls, never give a sucker an even break capitalist. As such, when I spy any "thing" that appears to be commercially viable and isn't, my bullsh!t detector goes off big time. It saves time for me, I simply look for the money and when there isn't any, and I hear a litany of excuses instead, I simply write the loons off and look for more little people to oppress.

So, when we hear about the ability to move things and no killings in Vegas are apparent at the Craps or Roulette tables, I guffaw. When people can see the future and no Casinos are regularly busted and when major corporations are not taken over by canny investors or we don't have as many billionaires as there are oafs who make these absurd claims, I know I am faced with mental illness or damned liers.

Here we have some claims. Here we do not have Bill Gates II. Why not?

- "Vested interests" are working against me
- The big xxxxx companies are conspireing against me
- Bush and his oil buddies will make sure this won't happen

Yadda yadda yadda yada

Right, big fat, I mean Michael Moore fat, capitalists don't want to take over the world more. Sure, right. Lies.

Then there is this excuse:

- The development is not quite there (yet)

Which means "Give me some money" which resonates with my dark side and certainly has traction with me because these are the words of a greedy bastard that I can relate to. It does not mean that there is anything there, it means that we are dealing with a greedy bastard. This is not paranormal. It is a commonplace and only serves to sooth my Wa by reassuring me that the planets are rotating along their accustomed paths.
 
sanduleak said:
i want to hear your opinions about this

avramenko experiment

I looked here and here for information on this avramenko experiment.

First, it says he applied for a patent in 1993. 12 years ago. If a person can get toast patented, why can't this guy get a patent?

Second, the schematic shows a transformer between the power source and the load. And yet he says it is now powered by a DC battery. Sorry, that just won't work. Even with two wires in the output circuit.

The pictures are too fuzzy to make out the actual workings of the circuit, but if I had ten minutes with the rig I'd be able to tell you the "cheat" he uses.
 
I see a 555 multivibrator in the circuit. That is the signal crossing the transformer.
 
I've found a little time to look at things here, so I'll knock a few out, more as time permits.

avramenko experiment

This is a (very) basic circut for translating alternating current to direct current, and not a particularly useful one -- although it is a good demonstration of basic AC/DC relationships.

There's nothing bogus about the circut itself. It's the sort of thing that would make a great high school science fair project.

The claims made in regard to the "advantages" and "revolutionary nature" of this circut, however, are bogus.

For example, proponents claim that by using one wire instead of two, they reduce total wire resistence by half -- while ignoring the fact that to do any useful work, they are now doubleing the load on their one transmision wire, hence total resistence remains the same.

This method does have it's applications (microwave or radio power transmision, for example, works on esentialy the same principle: using alternating curent to transmit energy without any "return" wire), but it's nothing new or unexpected from a conventional standpoint.



hooper-monstein experiment

This experiment is a fantastic example of drawing the wrong conclusions by failing to look at the system as a whole.

The claim is that induction is occuring within a static magnetic field. The problem is that the experimentors only seem to be looking for induction from the one wire in the middle and are completely ignoring their big wire loop (conecting the test wire to the meter) which just so happens to be placed perfectly to pick up an asymetrical flux from the two magnets as they move.

If the loop of wire surounded the entire setup uniformily, then, as the claimants claim, there would be zero net magnetic flux and one would expect zero induction.

However, since the loop only surounds half the aparatus, the magnetic field only passes through it in one direction, hence a current is induced in the wires.

The setup DOES create a current, but the hooper-monstein explanation of it is completely wrong. The results are precisely what one would expect from a classical standpoint.




err... this explanation looks a lot less articulate then I had hoped... Let me know if it isn't clear enough.

Edit: Arrgh! spelling!
 
Re: Re: PARADOX EXPERIMENTS?

Luke T. said:
I looked here and here for information on this avramenko experiment.

First, it says he applied for a patent in 1993. 12 years ago. If a person can get toast patented, why can't this guy get a patent?

Second, the schematic shows a transformer between the power source and the load. And yet he says it is now powered by a DC battery. Sorry, that just won't work. Even with two wires in the output circuit.

The pictures are too fuzzy to make out the actual workings of the circuit, but if I had ten minutes with the rig I'd be able to tell you the "cheat" he uses.
Yawn. It is not a single-wire system. The transmitting end and the receiving end both couple capacitively to earth. With high enough voltage and/or high enough frequency, you get sufficient current flowing to light up things or make sparks. Works just like one of these pole indicators you use to see which wire is the live one in a wall outlet. Earth is the second wire.

Nothing mystrious about it, just a very elaborate method for lightning a bulb. :rolleyes:

Hans
 
Once again, my financial evaluation leads me to the expected inerrent conclusion.:D
 
Re: Re: Re: PARADOX EXPERIMENTS?

MRC_Hans said:
Yawn. It is not a single-wire system. The transmitting end and the receiving end both couple capacitively to earth. With high enough voltage and/or high enough frequency, you get sufficient current flowing to light up things or make sparks. Works just like one of these pole indicators you use to see which wire is the live one in a wall outlet. Earth is the second wire.

Nothing mystrious about it, just a very elaborate method for lightning a bulb. :rolleyes:

Hans

They claim the circuit is not grounded.

The AFEP v1.2 is a improved version of the AFEP v1.0, I have added a small 78L12 DC regulator for the 555 square wave pulses generator circuit. The AFEP circuit is now powered with a 24V DC source ( two lead acid 12V/4 AH batteries) and always ungrounded.
 
Unless it is floating in the air at a considerable altitude (which it obviously ain't when you look at the pictures), then it couples capacitively to earth.

Hans
 
Re: Re: Re: PARADOX EXPERIMENTS?

MRC_Hans said:
Yawn. It is not a single-wire system. The transmitting end and the receiving end both couple capacitively to earth. With high enough voltage and/or high enough frequency, you get sufficient current flowing to light up things or make sparks. Works just like one of these pole indicators you use to see which wire is the live one in a wall outlet. Earth is the second wire.

MRC_Hans
Unless it is floating in the air at a considerable altitude (which it obviously ain't when you look at the pictures), then it couples capacitively to earth
Nope. Irrelevant. Try looking at it again. It is indeed a single-wire system.

As Luke mentioned, It's not grounded. There's no need for it to be; it uses the same wire for both tansmission and return in alternating fasion, maintaining capacitance against itself within the plug to keep an average voltage (from the perspective of the transmision line) of zero while boot-straping stored charge up to a "useful" level.

There's nothing, in theory, to prevent this circut from being used at arbitrarily high altitude, arbitrarily low frequency, or arbitrarily low voltage (Aside from the properties of materials avaliable.) so long as one transmits pulses of 1, -1, 1, -1, etc relative to internal "ground" rather then, say, 1, 0, 1, 0, etc. (which would require an external ground or something similar.)
Nothing mystrious about it, just a very elaborate method for lightning a bulb.
This statement I do agree with, although I consider it a fun little toy experiment in it's own right rather than a "yawn, rolleyes." :D
 
Re: Re: PARADOX EXPERIMENTS?

I was rolling over in my sleep all last once I realized how painfuly misleading this statement was:
Vim Razz said:
For example, proponents claim that by using one wire instead of two, they reduce total wire resistence by half -- while ignoring the fact that to do any useful work, they are now doubleing the load on their one transmision wire, hence total resistence remains the same.
Ahem.. Correction:
they reduce total wire energy loss due to resistence by half -- while ignoring the fact that to do any useful work, they are now doubleing the load on their one transmision wire, hence total energy loss due to resistence remains the same.
There we go. I feel much better now. :)
 
On second thought, (or maybe third) are they claiming the transmitter isn't grounded as well??!?

Now I confess to confusion. Time to make a trip to Radio Shack.
 
They are claiming that neither end is grounded. And they are wrong. It is not a single-wire system, your remark about it needing to generate AC betrays that. There is a CAPACITIVE return path. That returm path does not absolutely have to go through earth (although it surely does in the shown setup), it could also be direct between the transmitter and receiver (notice that they had to ad an antenna).

It is not possible to make a single wire circuit (rather obvious, if you think about it). You either have a circuit, in which case you MUST have a return path (although it does not have to be a wire) or you have a wave transmission system, which is a zero wire system.

It is possible to IMITATE a one wire system by having the transmitter and receiver antennas touch.

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
It is not a single-wire system, your remark about it needing to generate AC betrays that. There is a CAPACITIVE return path.
Aye. I just got back from slapping my head over a cigarette. :p

I still think it's a fun little toy.
 

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